The Soviet Union was NOT “close to nuking the Chinese”.
Also “it worked out pretty well with the collapse of the USSR”. NOPE. Kissinger sold out SE Asia to the Reds in a Machieavellian play to pit the Red China against the Soviets. It didn’t happen. Red China continued to be the major arms/transportation conduit for the No. Vietnamese army (PAVN) and their allies in the Pathet Lao (Laos reds) and for a while, the Maoist Khmer Rouge.
[I was studying in Taipei when Nixon made the announcement that he would be going to Red China in the future. Helped to organize the first foreign demonstration against Red China in their history. It was nice to be a “hero” to the whole country (my fellow younger students were the key people in the polite protest at the US Embassy. I was there but in the background. We old guys (I was 26) let the kiddies have the limelight.]
I was a short-term journalist in both So. Vietnam and Cambodia, which included military briefings in both countries as well as talking to high ranking NVA/VC officers/soldiers POWs and Defectors. This was in 1970 and one NVA senior officer said that to win the war against Hanoi, we had to take out “Haiphong Harbor”, which was one of the PAVN’s major Communist Bloc supplies entry points; the other was Red Chinese arms and men/transportation workers and anti-aircraft crews at the entrance to the Ho Chi Minh Trail, known as Mughia Pass.
The collapse of the Soviet Union was due to a strong US military build-up AFTER the Soviets started theirs in the late 60s thru 70’s.
Our “High Frontier”/”Star Wars - Strategic Defense Initiative” re building up our offensive and DEFENSIVE missile programs, helped to drive the economically poor Soviet Union into a grave financial status that threatened to collapse the whole Soviet system. Gorbachev was smart enough to recognize this and back-off, even if he had to “tear down this Wall” and pull Soviet troops out of most Eastern European Captive Nations.
One of my graduate seminar classmates on Strategic Policies etc, was Lt. Gen. Danny Graham (CIA, DIA, High Frontier) and an architect of the SDI idea. One of our lecturers had flown in the B-2 bomber, new at that time but a total game-changer versus the Soviets.
Also, our introduction of the very successful Stinger missile in Afghanistan totally took the Soviet’s “air” advantages off the battlefield - lost at least 60 jets, bombers and helicopters, thus denying the successful Soviet Spetnaz forces their ability to seize mountain tops above Mujahedeen forces they were blasting below. I had friends who were reporting about this from inside Afghanistan.
One of the problems with American foreign policy and our leaders is that they do not know about communism (and later Islamic Extremism) and their sole goal of dominating the world “By Any Means Necessary” (BAMN). Their concessions and weaknesses, witness Biden and Afghanistan, Obama and Iraq/the rise of ISIS, and the sellout of our people in Benghazi, only confirmed to our communist and Islamic enemies that we were weak in will, in our knowledge of who they were and what they wanted, and how long they were willing to fight to obtain their goals (witness the Taliban in Afghanistan right now).
Glorgau: Hate to bust your chops, but I’ve probably been around a lot longer than you, been involved in a few things re internal security and national security (even made the cover of a few magazines), and had great, brave, patriotic friends as well as a relative who fought in WW2 - Iwo Jima, (OSS), CIA, DIA, ASA, Korea, VN, Kosovo, Desert Storm and my son was one of the first American troops into Iraq on 3/20/2003. I learned to listen to them and then ask questions. You’ve be surprised at what is NOT written in history books except for those my friends have written about what they have been involved in (I would say well over 100-125 books at minimus including national best sellers, Military History Book awards, similar to the Pulitzer Prize)), even a few movies.
Life is stranger than fiction but often more fascinating. A collective “we were there” is very often better for learning than reading what backbenchers and armchair historians wrote post-hoc the events.
I couldn’t remember if Red China slowed their materiel support to North Vietnam. I doubt that Nixon and Kissinger even asked for it, or that Vietnam even entered into their plan for China.
Nixon may not have said it but he allowed people to believe during the 1968 campaign that he had “a secret plan for ending the Vietnam War”. I don’t think he ever had any plan other than to bug out gradually.
It always looked to me like he continued Johnson’s half baked defensive policy that allowed Hanoi to set the pace of the war with no fear that they would get flattened like Berlin and Tokyo. So all they had to do was bide their time and wait until Americans were fed up with a never ending war.
Somehow in the 1940s we could defeat two major powers in 3 1/2 years but in 25 years couldn’t defeat one second rate power. Politicians who commit us to war without a plan and will to quickly defeat our opponent are little more than criminals IMO.
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“Also, our introduction of the very successful Stinger missile in Afghanistan totally took the Soviet’s “air” advantages off the battlefield.”
It’s ignored in American history books, but China played a huge role in the 1980s Afghan War. We gave the Afghans a small number of missiles, but China delivered a vast collection of AK-47s, ammo, and RPGs.
Without Chinese involvement the USSR would have won easily in Afghanistan and would not have collapsed.
> Also “it worked out pretty well with the collapse of the USSR”. NOPE.
I disagree. So maybe you knew people involved and saw a bunch of stuff (briefings, incidents, actions, etc.) happen. That sort of thing has always gone on and the “no shit this really happened” stuff is always happening. I was making an observation about the highest level strategic calculus. At the time (almost 50 years ago!), the USSR was the big threat. China wasn’t. It is now. That says it’s time to modify the high level policy. I’d bet that something will change high level policy in the next 50 years. Wanna take that bet? ;-)
Did everything play out perfect? No, it never does. Nobody has perfect forward vision and can only do what they see now.
than reading what backbenchers and armchair historians wrote post-hoc the events.