COVID-19 Vs. COVID Vaccine logic:

From GAB

[Cowgirl]

It hasn’t come to that for me but just find a new job is easier than it sounds for a lot of people.

[ransomnote]

Without quantifying the risks in both cases, the post is merely innuendo and anecdotal. There may well be future risks from the vaccine. But the benefits right now are in the vaccine's favor by at least 100 to 1 including the risk of breakthrough infection after vaccination.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WOW! You are likely unaware of the documented risk of ADE from mRNA 'vaccines'

"COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralising antibodies may sensitise vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated. Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralising antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID-19 disease via antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). This risk is sufficiently obscured in clinical trial protocols and consent forms for ongoing COVID-19 vaccine trials that adequate patient comprehension of this risk is unlikely to occur, obviating truly informed consent by subjects in these trials."

Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease - PubMed (nih.gov)

Even though the FDA & CDC  discussed potential side-effects of the Covid-19 vaccines in an October 2020 meeting, see pg. 16 of document they never told the public about these potential risks.

The number of adverse events following Covid vaccination dwarfs all other records kept for vaccines in the CDC's VAERS database.  There are already 192,954 Reports  of adverse events following Covid vaccinations and the CDC hasn't even published more than 75% of the reports received.

COVID DATA - OpenVaers

Further, about 1% or less of actual negative reactions to vaccines are ever reported to the CDC. 

Deaths involving the elderly in nursing homes following vaccination are being explained away by empty claims of 'superspreader' or old age.

WARNING: NURSING HOME WHISTLEBLOWER, "PATIENTS DYING LIKE FLIES AFTER VACCINE"

Normally, 50 deaths or less recorded following vaccination would mean the product would be pulled from the market, but there are already over 4000 deaths reported following COVID vaccinations and that's just a fraction of the actual number.

When the public makes it past the information censors, and reports on actual impacts of these vaccinations, the truth is horrific.

Israeli People Committee’s Report Find Catastrophic Side Effects Of Pfizer Vaccine To Every System In Human Body

At the same time, the statistics and claims about deaths/illnesses from the Covid VIRUS are exaggerated, the 'efficacy' of these 'vaccines' are intentionally misleading.

Check Your Understanding Of The "Efficacy" Claims For 'Vaccines': The Claim "95% Effective" Means A Fraction Of 1% Of The Vaccinated Are "Protected" For 2 Months

There are no stats for breakthrough infections that are reliable or predictable. The "vaccines' were tested for 2 months and during that time period, some people did not become ill among the vaccinated. But that doesn't only covers a 2 month experimental period. Actual risk from vaccines will have to extend beyond the two month period, for which we don't have data. And then trhere is the demand that people be repeatedly vaccinated to supposedly maintain immunity - each time incurring a fresh load of long-lasting risk.

There are safe, effective treatments using FDA approved well-tolerated medications that do not have all these unknown, lasting risks and terrible statistics for strokes/heart attacks/clots etc. being reported by people after vaccination. These are effective on high risk, particularly vulnerable people.

Dr. McCullough's protocol cuts death by 85% and Dr. Zelenko's protocol reduces risk of dying of Covid among the medically vulnerable from 7.5% to .5%.

Otherwise, those not particularly vulnerable have much better than 99% chances of surviving Covid-19 well and developing immunity which lasts, on average, 17 years according to Dr McCullough, who's devoted his medical practice to the treatment of Covid-19 patients because he realized the CDC was not interested in treatments and instead decided to 'wait' for vaccines.

COVID Vaccine Killing Huge Numbers, Warns Leading Doctor – Liberty Sentinel [32 minute video]

[ransomnote]

“They’ can mandate it, or corrupt courts tolerating it, is not the same as being legal or ethical. We live in a corrupt governmental system pushing the boundaries and violating Constitutional rights with abandon.

[one guy in new jersey]

A concise and illuminating side-by-side comparison.

Thanks for posting!

[one guy in new jersey]

“This post assumes...”

Posts don’t assume. People do.

Prove that the poster has so assumed.

[one guy in new jersey]

“the post is merely innuendo and anecdotal”

You are being far too dismissive.

The post proves that one side is being treated with the kidliest of gloves.

Sounds as if that side is your side and you are a little shy about admitting it.

[heavy metal]

your tagline indicates you’re a hypocrite...

your actions prove you’re a liar...

[CaptainPhilFan]

Bravo! This really sums up at least part of the nonsense.

I paused on the local news 20 minutes ago. Talking about the Frankenshot - and how so many people are unwilling and refusing to get it. The “incentive programs” are not really convincing people to get vaxxed in exchange for a plate of french fries.

The “experts say” the more you can make more people more afraid of the Fauci Flu than of the “vaccine” the more people might be persuaded to get it.

Thus, we have hair on fire scorched earth news out of India and Africa that bodies are piling up and everyone there is gonna die.

Not Sweden or Mexico where we’d have a shot of real news, but rather, 2 places known for chaos, poverty, and mystery about anything actually happening there.

So what’s the real reason for wanting this poison dart to be given to so many?

[palmer]

The informed consent paper does not quantify the risk of ADE. So there's a risk, what is the risk? 1 in a million? 1 in 10,000? The VAERS data shows very few ADE cases. The CDC website gives a 1% mortality for breakthrough cases.

Even though the same CDC web page says that vaccines make the breakthrough cases less severe, the numbers show that the same percentage (8%) are hospitalized and the same number (1%) die as "regular" COVID in unvaccinated patients.

So I'm inclined to believe the ADE thing is real, I think it is very small.

Put it this way: 1% of breakthrough cases die. People were vaccinated, caught COVID and died anyway. But breakthrough cases are 1 in 10,000 vaccinated individuals. I think will go up with time and more reporting. But it will still be small (e.g. 1 in 1000). Which means 1% of 0.1% of vaccinated people die of COVID.

[lakecumberlandvet]

If you trust your government then get the jab. If you trust your government you’re probably already irredeemable.

[one guy in new jersey]

Corporatism.

[one guy in new jersey]

His posting history proves he’s a shameless troll hiding inadequately behind a too-on-the-nose FR handle.

[palmer]

My side is no side. I'm an engineer and I look at numbers. There are no numbers in the post. It's useless unlike the worst or best case COVID numbers (1% mortality worst, 0.1% best case). The vaccine appears to have 0.01% breakthrough (1 in 10,000) but that will go up with time and more reporting of cases. Out of the 0.01%, about 1% die of COVID.

[Glad2bnuts]

Or, organize a labor strike even if there is no union. Get a lawyer, go to court and fight instead of back down or “taking the knee”.

IMO, if the risk of a bad outcome from the so called vaccine is not acceptable to you or your family, you should not be required to take it NO MATTER your job. Non-symptomatic persons are not infectious.

[ransomnote]

The informed consent paper does not quantify the risk of ADE. So there's a risk, what is the risk? 1 in a million? 1 in 10,000? The VAERS data shows very few ADE cases. The CDC website gives a 1% mortality for breakthrough cases.
Even though the same CDC web page says that vaccines make the breakthrough cases less severe, the numbers show that the same percentage (8%) are hospitalized and the same number (1%) die as "regular" COVID in unvaccinated patients.

So I'm inclined to believe the ADE thing is real, I think it is very small.

Put it this way: 1% of breakthrough cases die. People were vaccinated, caught COVID and died anyway. But breakthrough cases are 1 in 10,000 vaccinated individuals. I think will go up with time and more reporting. But it will still be small (e.g. 1 in 1000). Which means 1% of 0.1% of vaccinated people die of COVID.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The risk of ADE is significant, based on the research which looked at the failed history of mRNA vaccines.

Since 2005, the current mRNA technology has failed to make it past animal trials because the animals would develop antibodies, but then would die when exposed to the virus because their immune system basically overheated.

100% of the cats in the 2005 and 2012 died as a result, and the mice that were sacrificed (killed and analyzed) had infected lungs. They never had research that proved they got past the VERY significant problem with ADE and other immunological issues.

Wherever 'happy talk' meets research, the vaccines are exposed as having unacceptable levels of known risk and yet so much is not known about them. No successful mRNA vaccines for HIV, Hep C or other Coronaviruses were ever tested on people because they always failed the animal trials. But you're just full of baseless optimism, aren't you?

Here's more reality:

MODERNA Vaccine Wreaks Havoc on Lytton BC and Local Doctor Blows Whistle! (BANNED ON YOUTUBE!)

[T.B. Yoits]

It is as simple as I say but you point out the problems created by those who do not want it simple. I don’t think they have the right to require these things. That unfortunately doesn’t necessarily matter in today’s USA.

Companies that attempt to force experimental treatments on employees need to be exposed, charged, and dissolved if necessary. Their behavior is no different than korporations who committed atrocities in Nazi Germany. Forcing experimental treatment on individuals was specifically addressed in the permissible experiments section of the Nuremberg Code in 1947. (http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/).

"The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts:"

"The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision."

"The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity."

"The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury."

"Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability or death."

"The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment."

"During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible."

Reigning in tyrannical government is only part of the effort. Reigning in the korporations supporting such a tyrannical government is another.

[one guy in new jersey]

No numbers needed.

Irrefutable point made.

Indicted hucksters are now scrambling to justify their meager paid troll existence.

If the shoe fits, palmer, wear it.

If not, don’t.

“A Few Good Men” was a Hollywood movie.

Tom Cruise demanded the Truth from Jack Nicholson. Miraculously, he got it.

You ain’t gettin’ no numbers, engineer man.

You can’t handle the truth!

[Repealthe17thAmendment]

For me, this is more than an academic, or philosophical debate. I recently lost a daughter to Covid, so I know there is real pain behind each of those deaths.

What seems to be lost in this issue is the question of balance. People argue the extreme positions without considering where the other position has some validity.

As for me, I favor vaccinations and encourage it because the positives far outweigh the negatives in my opinion. But I also respect the rights of each person to make up their own mind. However, those who choose not to become vaccinated should be aware that they could possibly and unknowingly infect a more vulnerable person. Considering that the vaccine is so widely available makes that situation less likely, but it can happen, and the results could be tragic.

[dkGba]

This terrifies me - I am not anti-vax, but as licensed health care professional who’s seen a lot of health care mistakes personally and professionally, I cannot take this vaccine at this time. For a number of reasons vaccine itself might kill me. But I am 10-12 years from retirement. WTF am I supposed to do? I am also at risk for the virus. I am terrified I’ll end up eating cat food. I wear an N95 mask- same as in hospital. I have to. Am I going to be assaulted on the streets? Because that signals no vax? Am I going to be prohibited from working?

[palmer]

Since 2005, the current mRNA technology has failed to make it past animal trials because the animals would develop antibodies, but then would die when exposed to the virus because their immune system basically overheated.

ADE was not present in the trials for moderna or pfizer. There's some potential ADE in VAERS, the day of vaccination or the day after. That includes fever, swelling, rashes, headache, haemorrhage, and lung issues. But there are many more that are just heart attacks and other comorbidities. Even if all the ADE-looking cases are ADE, that's not a lot of cases, just a small fraction of the 4,000 deaths in VAERS.