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To: CodeToad

Agreed, and it’s always easier to look at things in hindsight but consider the following.

First, obviously you have more experience at that airport than I and I assume you are a pilot who has flown into KAPA before.

You indicated the distance between centerlines of 17L and 17R is only 700 feet. Not a lot of room for error.

You also stated it was not uncommon for GA aircraft to have to use high bank angles (30 degrees) in order to turn from base to final in order not to infringe on the approach to 17L.

You asked about winds aloft. You said the winds at pattern altitude may differ from winds reported by the tower. Obviously, it sounds as if aircraft have been pushed into the approach of either runway depending from which direction the wind was blowing.

There was ambiguity in the controllers call out to the Cirrus about traffic on approach to 17L. It certainly didn’t sound as if the Cirrus driver was aware of the approaching Metro.

The Metro doesn’t offer a huge profile to pick up visually and there was no acknowledgement by the Cirrus the pilot ever saw the Metro.

Both aircraft were operating on a visual approach which isn’t flown as tightly as other instrument approaches.

The radar track of the Cirrus and the aircraft preceeding the Cirrus show both aircraft either did or were about to turn from base to final well left of the track to 17R.

While I hate to paint all GA pilots with a broad brush, most do not fly as tight a pattern as a professional pilot.

Extending the Cirrus’ downwind leg by 30-seconds (or less) would have prevented the Cirrus from flying into the Metro even had the Cirrus gone wide on base to final.

I would bet there have been incidents of near-misses before. This time, the two paths converged.

Bottom line, the aircraft can be replaced (although if you read some of the comments on other sites regarding the operator of Key Lime Air the words duct tape and baling wire are mentioned frequently) no one was hurt, and it may lead to procedures that will separate traffic between the two runways better.


46 posted on 05/14/2021 5:57:09 AM PDT by offduty (Joe Biden, Commander in Thief)
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To: offduty

Independence Aviation is also run by people I know. All pros, ATP, and even at least one DPE. Every one of those guys has countless cycles through that airport.


47 posted on 05/14/2021 6:15:17 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm up! They Have!)
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To: offduty

“I would bet there have been incidents of near-misses before. “

Lots! Nothing like getting a call from tower, “XYZ, bank hard left now!” Happened to me more than once.

The airport is a training airport with probably half the flights for training. ATC are trained there, too. Makes for a nervous cadre of experienced pilots and experienced controllers. Aviation needs an upgrade to its safety standards. There simply are some people that should never fly or be a controller.

There have been calls to close this much needed and economically important airport as it was once in the middle of nowhere but has been encroached on all sides now. This is how so many airports have been closed, through development.


50 posted on 05/14/2021 6:28:04 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm up! They Have!)
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