Posted on 04/18/2021 10:40:04 AM PDT by knarf
I did intentionally synopsize my post so others could chime in.
Your chime went thunk
The comparison of what ?
Freedom fighters, or to Trump ?
YOUR statement declaring the 60's personages I used in my meme were democrats talking (and trying to do something) about freedom. They actually DID do something about freedom because THEIR time was Vietnam and negroes ... two subjects the three took on as favorably as one can expect a political administration could accomplish.
Much like President Trump, coming in here all high and mighty and actually accomplishing a lot of good for the American people .... and HE had to go too !
You say; "But like all Leftists, their idea of freedom was using government authority to socially engineer their utopian vision - which is the opposite of true freedom.", but to begin with, they were not leftists, not as we understand being left today, rather they were anti-establishment and wanted to correct the political mores that perpetrated racism and inequality.
THEY were not trying to socially engineer anything ... but to remove political obstacles that were preventing or hindering American racial relations.
YOUR language of criticism is FULL of lefty buzz words.
Their teachers came out of American lefty teacher colleges, maybe ?
chime in, brother
I will repeat.
“Seriously can’t tell if you were supporting the war or against it, for the hippes and RFK or not etc...”
That’s OK - I wasn’t expecting to cure you of your Democrat hero worshipping.
In brief overview, US involvement in Vietnam is a rather long and convoluted tale, which apparently began during WW-2.
Although Japanese forces occupied Indochina in 1940 the region was initially allowed to remain under French administration while Japan used it as a staging area for attacking China.
However after the fall of France the Vichy government’s influence was slowly diminished, (Japan correctly suspected loyal French were providing intelligence information to the allies) and as Indochina became much more strategically important, Japan launched Operation Maigo, a swift and forceful armed takeover effectively ending French Colonial rule.
Alarmed by the loss of vital intelligence and cognizant of the growing importance of the region, the US sent OSS ‘Deer Teams’ to Vietnam under the command of Major Allison Thomas to train the local Viet Minh in the use of American weapons.
The Viet Minh had long opposed both the French and the Japanese, they fought for Vietnamese independence. Their leader, Ho Chi Minh, was chosen by OSS to coordinate with American advisors because he had saved a downed American pilot and personality escorted him back to 14th Air Force HQ in China. Ho had received so such positive recognition that OSS agent Charles Fenn was sent to find and evaluate Ho. Fenn reported back that Ho was articulate and charismatic, open and friendly to Americans and would make an excellent intelligent agent. OSS concluded that Ho and his Viet Minh would be valuable assets in the war against Japan. Thus did Ho Chi Minh enter the American OSS as newly minted secret agent ‘Lucius.’
However, planned American and Viet Minh military cooperation was cut short when the US exploded nuclear bombs over Japan in 1945.
Americans began arriving in Hanoi on August 22, 1945 to prepare for the formal surrender of Japanese forces. Captain Archimedes Patti led the American Mission which was received with warmth and appreciation by the Vietnamese people.
The Viet Minh marched in their first parade, the Vietnamese flag flew alongside those of the victorious allies, and the new Vietnamese National Anthem was played right after The Star Spangled Banner.
Vo Nguyen Giap (a name Americans should recognize, but most will not) remarked: This is the first time in the history of Viet Nam that our flag has been displayed in an international ceremony and our national anthem played in honor of a foreign guest. I will long remember this occasion.
Unfortunately, the dream of Vietnamese independence was soon shattered when the French attempted to reestablish colonial dominance in Vietnam. French expectations were that the US would help them reestablish pre WW-2 colonial rule, however, the US was looking ahead and preparing for Cold War with the USSR and showed little interest.
Sentiments ran high and relations between the French and Vietnamese deteriorated to the point of escalating violence. OSS Mission Chief in Saigon, Lt. Col. Peter Dewey, encapsulated the overall situation in his last transmission as he prepared to leave Vietnam: Cochinchina is burning, the French and British are finished here, and we ought to clear out of Southeast Asia.
Unfortunately, Lt. Col. Peter Dewey died on the day of his planned departure from Vietnam, he was shot dead by local guards who said they thought he was a Frenchman.
Consequently, Peter Dewey became America’s first post WW-2 casualty in Vietnam. No one suspected then how many thousands more would follow.
[I intended a brief overview but it’s gotten out of hand. I’m hungry, I’m tired and I’m quitting for the evening. I’ll write more if anyone is interested.]
I kept my senses and eyes and ears opened and I just reported to the FR community my understanding as both John Wayne 17 year old and 20 year old mixed up a little older kid and a 22 -24 year old quasi political activist against the war, turned 25 year old love hippy doing lots of drugs and sex.
I don't fit a category.
Something you modern lefties like to do
He actually served in the military
You sound like you’re still mixed up.
A Californian calling a flyover American mixed up ... check.
“A Californian calling a flyover American mixed up ... check.”
Free Republic is from California. You’re proving my point.
I'm bored ... good night
57 later
Me too. They didn’t shoot enough of the Kennedys.
“I can’t remember as good as I once did, but I can remember once as good as I ever did”
lol...thanks for the chuckle!
This was puzzling since it had been over 100 years since the Wabash served Iowa...
Well, what do I know. Not saying this sarcastically, I know I’ve seen both spellings but I was told by another vet who was in the Marines and there it is one word.
Peruse later, and, yes, I remember.
In 1945-46 Vietnam had a fake coalition government known as the Lien Viet (non-communists and Communist Party of Indochina (Ho) and the Trotskyite Vietnamese Tha Thau Than of something like that). By the end of 1946-47, only the Lao Dong (Communist Party of Vietnam) remained intact - the others fled into exile, were jailed/tortured and/or killed.
Ho never intended for any other party to have a say in governing Vietnam.
Archimedes Patti was a Communist sympathizer and stooge. He did to the non-communists in Vietnam (including the leader of the Hoa Hao sect, whose brother I had lunch with in 1970)what our OSS leaders did in Yugoslavia, betray them to the communists (Micholovitch to Tito).
The Viet Minh did very little fighting against the Japanese in Vietnam/Indochina just as Tito’s “Partisans” did little fighting against the Germans (and had secret agreements in some areas to stand-down from any fighting between them). (I had friends in both the Partisans and Chetniks.
Not everything in “history” about Vietnam is accurate, true, or in context. I spent some time in So. Vietnam and Cambodia talking to NVA POWS/high ranking defectors and one former Viet Minh General (saw a photo of him with Ho while he was in his general’s uniform) who turned on Ho after he betrayed the non-Communist Viet Minh factions who didn’t want a communist dictatorship.
For more information and books on many of these topics, go to www.VVFH.org (Vietnam Veterans for Factual History and their related printing house, Radix Foundation, for information you won’t find in the mainstream books/textbooks on Vietnam. Our guys were the ones who made “history” in Vietnam, and they do appear in some of the more honest/knowledgeable books, but not those of Zinn, Chomsky, Geo. McT. Kahin (Cornell, who may have been a Red Chinese agent earlier in Indonesia according to a journalist who knew him very well back then).
Anything by Turse, Gaddis, Bacevich (fair onsome things), Porter, Prados, and possibly Herring are suspect to terrible.
The first rule of journalism and of history is don’t believe everything you are told and half of what you see. If there is no documentation, context, or even personal experiences, then it has to be read with a lot of concern for lies, disinformation, misinformation or sheer contextual distortion.
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