Posted on 01/01/2021 9:41:58 AM PST by Fawn
Yours is totally wrong.
Yours says... the outcome NOW depends on choices others made in other circumstances... not on the choices made NOW... while pretending actors now have no ability to make different choices. Beyond being brain dead stupid on the reality that choices made matter... it misses the point, entirely, in recognizing the division between “choices to be made” and “what the rules require”.
The rules require... Pence to make choices.
Those who want a particular choice made... are arguing, WRONGLY, that he has no power to make choices.
You have correctly explained the legal process. Directing how the VP should act in advance of that process, on behalf of a legislator is still outside of the court’s role.
The Constitution defines the VP as the person responsible to CONDUCT the election...
If there is no REAL controversy, that process tends to be fairly straightforward... as is true in other elections that are not corrupted by fraud. The VP conducts the election, and counts the votes by the process he, as the sole responsible authority, establishes. No controversy existing, means that process proceeds without ever requiring a controversy be resolved. When there IS a REAL controversy, as when fraud corrupts the results... and as when officials commit perjury by falsely certifying results... or when officials knowingly accept others fraudulent certifications without demanding corrections of frauds being practiced... that’s another issue.
The VP, is not absolved of his other obligations by his charge to be responsible for the PROPER conduct of the vote.
He ALSO has an obligation to ensure the laws are faithfully executed... and if he knowingly accepts the products of fraud in his official capacity, wherein he is required to reject the products of fraud... he should “be held accountable”... whether that means “go to jail” for simple malfeasance... or “be executed” for treason... depending only on the circumstances inherent in the instance ?
He’s not onboard with the democrats, he’s following the constitution. He has no constitutional authority to decide if the electoral votes certified and sent by the states are valid or not.
Imagine if in 2016 Biden had else died that because of Russian interference in the election he was not counting the electoral votes for Trump and declared Hillary the winner. It would have been unconstitutional for him to do so and everyone on this website would have been screaming bloody murder.
There is a difference between “directing which choice to make” and “directing who is responsible for making choices”.
Gohmert is right to demand that those who ARE responsible should be DIRECTED to accept their responsibility... rather than violate the Constitution... by PRETENDING they are not responsible.
You can extend the argument from there, to the next level:
If Pence is refusing to acknowledge his specifically DIRECTED responsibility... as the Executive with the sole responsibility in conducting the election... who is he seeking to wrongly empower INSTEAD... in exercising that power to choose, when he wrongly refuses to accept responsibility ?
There are no competing electors. There is only one set of electors certified by those seven states and they are for Biden. The other “electors” are not certified and those votes won’t even be with the certified electors.
“He has no constitutional authority to decide if the electoral votes certified and sent by the states are valid or not.”
Yours says: “Those responsible for conducting elections have no authority to determine if votes are valid or not”.
Does ANYONE believe that ? Do I really have to expound ?
The VP does not conduct an election. His sole purpose as outlined in the constitution is to make sure the votes are counted. That is the state certified votes are counted. There is only one set of state certified votes that will be opened in counted on Jan 6th and those show Biden winning the electoral college.
...and 74 million or so other Americans.
The 12 amendment stipulates that all the votes will be opened and counted.
As others, I don’t believe that to be true.
Those seven states are not RIGHTLY certified... so they are not certified. Committing perjury to sign a knowingly fraudulent certification... doesn’t make it a valid certification... but a criminal act in further of a fraud.
I robbed a bank... therefore the money is mine... because I bribed the judge to look the other way... so its all legit ?
So, if there are no competing electors... then there are no electors.
What may be true on the 6th of January... isn’t known, yet.
Georgia has already voted to DECERTIFY their electors.
Others will likely follow.
That’s just wrong. The VP conducts the election.
Counting votes... IS conducting the election.
It requires... not counting things that are not votes.
Fraudulent votes... are not votes.
guess pence can do what he determines to be correct then
You sum up the issue very well!
Since this is uncharted territory, we would be well served to have the issues brought forth now rather than after the fact. Compelling Pence to buy into an 'unlawful' slate of electors destroys any appearance of legitimacy of the electoral process. ANY member, including Pence, must be able to examine substantive claims of unlawful activities before accepting what is presented to them.
If Pence can save us from the Sniffer and the Commie, I’m for it. The Sniffer should have been out front proving he was the winner, instead of, letting his friends, the slimes, pick the winner.
So, if I understand what your saying, Thomas Jefferson was never POTUS. Check move he made as President of the U.S. Senate.year 1856-7. That will be a shock to you. The desertification of “electors” will put election in House of Representatives. Each state will get one vote. FYI nation wide, approx 29 Republican State Legislators, 20 Democratic.
Hi Sense -
I think you are responding to someone else as your quoted language did not come from me.
I suppose we will have to disagree on this issue, as much as I hate it. But, you didn’t answer why we didn’t have a President Gore in 1981, or a President Nixon in 1961. We will see who is wrong shortly.
Pence’s role is a ministerial position, not a decision maker. There would have never been lodged ultimate decision power in only one person. The Founders were much wiser than that. That would in effect give one man the power to dictate a ruler. It would make that person a King. The Founders fought against all the authority being lodged with one man. That is why there is a 12th Amendment. The statutes are window dressing.
I still think that it isn’t over. In poker I have seen people draw to an inside straight occasionally. It isn’t common, but it does happen. People do win the Powerball Jackpot occasionally.
I read this morning on a thread here, sourced to Lenora Thompson. that referred to rumors that VP Pence has already resigned yesterday, effective immediately. If so, That puts Pelosi into the position of opening and recording the votes (I think).
We will see in a few days. I will be the first to be willing to be schooled on the clearly obvious wording of the Constitution and the statutes, and that they don’t mean what they say.
Sadly, even if Pence struck some votes, it will go to the houses to confirm the removal of the slate. Since it requires both houses to agree with remove, any slates submitted and certified by the executive of the states will be accepted. Even if enough electoral votes were eliminated, I believe the RINOs in the state’s delegations will not cast their votes for President Trump.
See you on here in a few days.
Gwjack
“...If so, That puts Pelosi into the position of opening and recording the votes (I think). ...”
I think if Pence (or a VP) wasn’t there it would be the President Pro Tempore of the Senate who would act in his place. That would be Grassley.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_pro_tempore_of_the_United_States_Senate
That was before the Electoral Act of 1877 added all the detail. Every schoolchild learns that America doesn’t have kings, and so we have checks and balances to avoid one person having all the power. No judge is going to read the law as vesting the vice president with a free hand to disregard electoral votes.
Thanks Reily. You may be correct. I don’t think it will get there.
I know there is a thread floating around about the Root tweet predicting something big soon because both President Trump and Vice President Pence are now back in Washington. They both came back early.
Speculation that I’ve read is that the flights of the B 52s in the Persian Gulf recently, and the warnings to Iran are connected dots to the “big” news. I read from Lenora Thompson’s blog that perhaps there was a very credible threat against POTUS at Mar-A-Lago. Iran has directly threatened POTUS after the assassination of their nuclear scientist.
If something happens, it will probably be tomorrow (Saturday) so as to get on the Sunday shows.
Stay safe, my Friend.
Gwjack
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