Posted on 12/12/2020 7:39:24 PM PST by SeekAndFind
I appreciate that. Very much.
If it comes to that I hope I’m still in good enough shape to contact you ... and a lawyer.
I have so little contact with others I may never cross paths with this virus. At some point it should become scarce.
I also have had little to no susceptibility to common respiratory viruses such as influenza and cold viruses for decades so I am hoping my resistance will apply to this nasty bug as well.
Would prednisone be expected to work similarly if dexamethasone were unavailable?
Iverrmectin was being used and tested (somewhat) and considered by some in March and before.
Many others were being looked at also.
And it was disparaged from the beginning, as were many meds. “Follow the science!”
The same people who think that drug reps giving out pens to doctors causes doctors to make bad decisions somehow want us all to believe that they have no conflict of interest when they bad-mouth possibly effective drugs which might work well enough to stop a pandemic and thereby deprive democrats of political leverage.
It’s the Hunter Biden Investigation —
before the election, it’s impossible that such a nice boy was involved in anything —
in the fall, it starts heating up —
and after the election, ivermectin may finally be “recognized” as helpful, who knew?
/sarc
Numerous foreign countries have been aware of Ivermectin for almost a year. Why has the American FDA and CDC not been aware of this treatment and saved thousands of lives?????? Something is very wrong with the American Health System and the people running it.
No. Unfortunately prednisone not as effective as decadron. There are same class of drugs but decadron is much more powerful
If you want to take it, knowing we don't know the side effects of the medication in people with COVID-19 and are hoping it's just the side effects we see when used as an anti parasitic agent, that is fine by me. I also believe that would be a reasonable assumption in light of what we are facing with COVID-19 and the lack of therapies for the disease.
With that out of the way I have yet to find a good study that would lead me to believe that Ivermectin is an effective prophylactic. The phase 3 vaccine trials show the problem. The placebo arm in one of those trials had approx. 15,000 people in it. They only had 95 people come down with the disease in that arm. So we will likely never know if Ivermectin is a good prophylactic as too few people get the disease in any given short timeframe (a few months).
For treatment there have been some small studies done outside Europe/US/Canada. It's enough to want to try it if I came down with COVID-19, its enough to want to put together a US trial of the medication. But it is no where near the glowing report given by the Doctor above. I get that he is trying to stir up some enthusiasm to make the drug more readily available for use and to drum up some money so it can be studied further.
Ivermectin is about where Hydroxychloroquine was 6 - 9 months ago. While I was very hopeful for HCQ only one US study found an effect vs. 3 or 4 studies showing no effect or no effect with unwanted side effects.
Think about remdesevir it initially was thought to be promising but the latest data found no mortality benefit. The hospital near me just dropped it from its recommended protocol. This is for a 'new' drug with a lot of money behind it.
There are problems for Ivermectin when we study it. The current dosing 0.2mg/kg is the standard dosing of the medication for its usual purposes. If you extrapolate from in vitro studies showing SARS-CoV-2 killing properties you find that it is significantly under dosed at concentrations found in lung tissue. See:
The Approved Dose of Ivermectin Alone is not the Ideal Dose for the Treatment of COVID-19 Authors: Virginia D. Schmith, PhD et al.
What about regular antihistamines? It turns out they are beneficial too:
Dual-histamine receptor blockade with cetirizine - famotidine reduces pulmonary symptoms in COVID-19 patients
in vitro research of University of Florida and accompanying patient records search of University of California patients provides evidence that H1 antihistamines (Benadryl, atarax) seem to prevent infection:
Identification of antiviral antihistamines for COVID-19 repurposing
If you are deficient to begin with, it takes time to get to normal levels of Vitamin D. Many diseases where vitamin D deficiency plays a role, studies find no benefit to Vitamin D supplements. However, if you can't keep a regular appointment with getting some sunlight, what choice do you have but to use supplements?
My own suspicion is that we will not find a good study about Vitamin D. Mainly because it can take months to get your vitamin D stores where they belong. You don't want to be deficient and if you can't get regular sunlight you have no choice but to use a vitamin D supplement.
The following study abstract highlights the issue:
Vitamin D deficiency aggravates COVID-19: systematic review and meta-analysis
This abstract shows that having proper vitamin D levels won't prevent COVID-19, but if you are deficient you are likely to have a worse outcome. Now does Vitamin D supplementation help you or are people with normal levels of Vitamin D (without trying very hard) just in better health? We don't know and short of finding these people and doing everything that they do, again, what choice do you have but to take Vitamin D supplements.
selenium - follows the same lines as zinc, vitamin D deficiency
quercitin - clinical trial proposed along with vitamin C
resveratrol - showed some in vitro activity against MERs
curcumin - due to its anti-inflammatory effects
thiamine - had shown some promise in sepsis in some studies
EGCG - green tea is good for everything
fish oil - anti-inflammatory effects, blood thinning effects
vitamin A - also an immune modulator, can be toxic if too much is taken
vitamin E - helpful in vitamin C metabolism, blood thinning effects, mixed tocopherols are the best form to take in general
Most of these have very little in research as it relates to COVID-19. Most are good for you for reasons other than COVID-19. Some you can get in a good health food store brand of multi-vitamin (preferred form). Some you can only get as individual supplements which gets expensive if you try to take all of them
Some studies that mention some of the above substances as potential therapies to consider:
Strategies for Targeting SARS CoV-2: Small Molecule Inhibitors—The Current Status
Candidate drugs against SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19
So given the fact that you can't even get Ivermectin for what it is approved for, can you blame doctors for not giving it to you when you have a disease that you might die from? Not to mention what if having COVID-19 makes you more susceptible to the serious side effects of Ivermectin like Steven-Johnson syndrome or hepatitis? A study of 79 patients in Bangladesh is not going to make many doctors jump outside of the current standard of care.
Ivermectin has been talked about early on in this pandemic. I believe there is a US trial going on to determine its usefulness. I see people touting in vitro studies as if they prove the effectiveness of a drug. Studies in rats aren't much better. They may help to sift through which compounds to study but they are a far way off from being proven effective. Small human trials are better they give hope that a larger trial will be successful. But until a larger clinical trial at an institution in the United States/EU/Canada is done you are way off the mark to say Ivermectin is effective against COVID-19.
Should you be able to take Ivermectin if you come down with COVID-19, absolutely with the informed knowledge that you are experimenting on yourself and you may risk death or adverse side effects of the drug. It would be nice if you could sign a form releasing the doctor from liability if you take it. But that is not the present state of medicine in the US right now.
Sorry, I was referring to the vitamins and zinc with the ionophore treatments advocated early on. They seemed to make sense then and have enjoyed success.
Their politicalization was deadly.
I’m sure pharm will come out with many drugs and hope they are really safe and effective.
Thanks for your explanation regarding the limitations of Ivermectin.
Now, I’d like to make a request of you... take your time to watch this:
Pierre Kory, M.D., Associate Professor of Medicine at St. Luke’s Aurora Medical Center, delivers passionate testimony during the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing on “Early Outpatient Treatment: An Essential Part of a COVID-19 Solution.
WATCH THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8SXOBy-4w
TITLE: “I CAN’T KEEP DOING THIS”: Doctor pleads for review of data during COVID-19 Senate hearing
Now, here’s my bottom line concern — GOVERNMENT POLICY.
Put yourself in the position of authority over the Covid-19 policies of say, a state.
Given what you know as you wrote in your lengthy post above, would you actually allow physicians and doctors in your state, Doctors like Dr. Pierre Cory who testified before Senate in the above YouTube video about its efficacy on his Covid-19 patients, the FREEDOM to prescribe Ivermectin and its protocol as they see fit, or would you use the power of the state to PROHIBIT them from prescribing it because it has not gone through the requisite stringent NIH double blind study?
*THAT* has always been the point of contention in this country and in other countries as well.
I was actually agreeing with you and expanding on what you wrote.
Sorry if I made it seem like I was disagreeing with you.
(I think I need to watch that in how I write, I often am supporting and expanding or tweaking when I reply to things, but I don’t make that clear enough.)
Thanks
Here’s some info on HCQ successfully used as a preventative and in early tratment from doctors who actually practice medicine:
https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/hydroxychloroquine/
https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/references/science-of-hcq/
bkmk
Thanks for this. More reading to do!
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