Money pit or sinkhole? Retired geologist digs up Oak Island's history

CBC ^

[BenLurkin]

The bedrock under the east side of Oak Island, where the money pit is located, is made up of Windsor Group limestone and gypsum.

"Given the right conditions, such as temperature, pressure, poor fluid composition, quite often these minerals, especially gypsum, they're prone to dissolution," Aitken said.

What you're left with is essentially a cavity in the bedrock, or a kind of cave. At the money pit, Aitken said the geological evidence suggests the roof of the cave collapsed.

He said there are also other sinkholes nearby, which further shows the so-called tunnels and pits are not engineered, as the show suggests.

"These are not man made. They are naturally formed features, they take sometimes thousands to even millions of years to form," he said.

But Aitken said while mystery hunters have been looking for buried treasure, they've missed the real riches.

"To me personally, the treasure on Oak Island has already been found in the form of archeological artifacts that have been discovered," Aitken said

[zaxtres]

Apologies on the wall of words. The HTML editor didn’t insert proper line breaks again.

[Reily]

First - paragraphs are your friend!

President of the Confederate - Jefferson Davis

As far Yamashita’s Gold goes, I'm skeptical.

1. “ ...1992, Marcos’ wife Imelda Macros admitted most of her husband’s wealth could be attributed to gold he found after WWII, with the Yamashita accounting for the bulk of it. ..”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2550725/wwii-treasure-worth-billions-found-philippines-cave/

Or

2.”. Ricardo Jose, history professor from the University of the Philippines] has questioned the theory that treasure from mainland Southeast Asia was transported to the Philippines: “By 1943 the Japanese were no longer in control of the seas... It doesn't make sense to bring in something that valuable here when you know it's going to be lost to the Americans anyway. The more rational thing would have been to send it to Taiwan or China. :.."”

Philippines National Historical Institute chairman and historian Ambeth Ocampo commented: “Two of the wealth myths I usually encounter are the Yamashita treasure and gossip that the Cojuangco fortune was founded on a bag of money...” Ocampo also said: “For the past 50 years, many people, both Filipinos and foreigners, have spent their time, money and energy in search of Yamashita’s elusive treasure.” Professor Ocampo noted “What makes me wonder is that for the past 50 years, despite all the treasure hunters, their maps, oral testimony and sophisticated metal detectors, nobody has found a thing.”
……..”

Regarding the Templars, you're still citing “TV evidence”, how about some links to some reputable publications.

“Illinois to connect the Aztec/Inca and others Architecture together. “ Links please & not to past TV shows?

Skinwalker i.e., shape shifters - really?

The rest sounds like a Nicholas Cage movie!

I've worked with LIDAR & radar data both airborne & ground penetrating versions professionally. I know its strengths & limitations.

TV regularly tries to convince me that Slick Willy & Zero were great presidents. Hillary is the smartest woman in the world & gays are normal. My rule-of-thumb: if its on TV its there at best to influence me to buy something at worst to change my political or moral outlook. If it informs me its rare & probably an accident.

[zaxtres]

It’s not on an island in the middle of nowhere. It does have a strategic location if you look at a map. From the South, ships would sail up the coast before sailing back to Europe. The island is accessible from the mainland and is on the southern route for those coming across the northern trade routes (think Vikings to name one). The island is not like Easter Island. By the way it was revealed this past season there were Oak Trees of the non-Northern American variey that grew there and died out.

[Reily]

I know the mound builder stuff very very well since I was raised in that area. There was an Adena\Hopewell (Can’t remember which Adena or Hopewell now - 50 years ago!) village excavated near my grandfather’s farm. I saw the excavation as a kid. I know the claims I don’t see the physical evidence. You pile up dirt it makes a mound. Snakes have impressed people all over the world & through all time & cultures. That in itself doesn’t make them connected other then the fact humans did it & humans share traits no matter when or where they’re from. There’s Neolithic structures all over Europe, a new exciting area of European archeology. They share some features with Neolithic structures elsewhere in the world. Why? Because in all cases humans built them.

Find me some Polynesian DNA in Ohio or WV! If its been found send me some links to some pubs.

To claim everything is connected without significant physical evidence insults the abilities of the ancient locals.

[zaxtres]

You are still on about LIDAR which I clearly told you it was not and continue to tell you the satellite tech is NOT LIDAR. Here I can say reading comprehension is your friend. As far as "TV evidence" goes the historical documents like ship logs, the woman who devoted her life to the history of the Templars in North America and the evidence she uncovered is all "TV evidence" eh? Next you will discount all of that work she made her life's focus and it continues after her death, all of that is "TV evidence". The archival documents of the ship's logs depicting Rochefort's death on the voyage over was all "TV evidence" Actual logs kept in archival records yep that was all "circumstantial" and "tv evidence. I hate to say this to someone who has command of google to look up evidence to prove his point, if I bury a treasure, I don't want it found by no other person but me. I buried it to keep it safe so all evidence that you have after I die pointing to the treasure can be considered "circumstantial" and "tv evidence" unless there was a big black X above the buried treasure and you dug down and found it. However you discount historic finds on the mainland which have been proved to be Templar. You discount the research of the metal found on the cross that comes from reputable institutions, one of which has a database of ancient quarries, and the circumstantial and tv evidence of the found iron cross dating back to before 1795. You doubt the evidence of the dating of the timber from a reputable institution. As far as the Philippines goes, Marcos was heavily involved in searching for the treasure to become rich. The locals, those still alive and spoke english, are eyewitnesses to the use of pow labor in the mountains of the Philippines. Hey mman you believe and think what you want, but then again don't because it is easier to go about your universe to believe what you think might be a professor from some university trying to save lives is saying. Remember I said the mountains were booby trapped. People have died coming across these. Now why would there be booby traps? Cuz there is nothing to see there? The Japanese had already lost the war, the Japanese General was hiding the treasure, if you want to call it that, from the Americans. Go find the name Rogelio Roxas, a former Filipino soldier, in relation to Yamashita's treasure. You have google or whatever you use. Here is a tidbit for you "...the United States Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal to summarize the allegations leading to Roxas’ final judgment as follows: "The Yamashita Treasure was found by Roxas and stolen from Roxas by Marcos' men."

[zaxtres]

First, you don’t know the history of the Miamisburg Mound. Yeah, I grew up in Dayton and have more stories to tell you about that place that would make your blood curl, especially if you looked up into the sky at night. And that was pointed out to me by another person from Fairborn, which got its name from the combination of the two towns called Osborne and Fairfield. My dad was born in a house in Osborne but my grandparents moved to a house across the border 9 houses down in a town called Fairfield. So yes I know the area quite well. I could hear the calisthenics from the barracks of Wright Patt every morning visiting my grandparents on Central Ave by the train tracks.

As far as the Miamisburg Mound goes, it has much more to do with than “just a snake” shape, the alignment to the solstices etc. It was thought to be a burial mound but nothing was buried in it. You need to learn more about it than what is on some sign in front of the park because a lot of what was initially thought turned out to be wrong.

And who the heck said anything about Polynesians being in Ohio? I spoke of trade from Europe again reading comprehension. Reading comprehension or did you not pay attention when it was taught in school. Let me guess you went to Tipp City eh?

[Reily]

“...discount the research of the metal found on the cross that comes from reputable institutions ….””

Send me the link to a pub on it or at least the name of a “reputable institution” not a TV link.

Note insulting me doesn't help your argument! It weakens it.

There seems to be two schools of thought on the Yamashita treasure. Current Philippine experts seem very skeptical. As I pointed out, I doubt if the Philippine academic was a Marcos fan..

Here is a treasure for you..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers.

I remain skeptical. It would be fun if it was true. Buried treasure stories were popular in early 1800s America.

[Reily]

Again insulting me doesn’t help your case!

Well you mentioned Polynesians.

I have read Barry Fall’s books and am somewhat sympathetic to his viewpoint. I met him 30+ years ago at a couple of conferences. I had some interesting and POLITE discussions with him. I still think some of his American Ogam translations seem like wishful thinking. His claims for Phoenician, Hittite, well needed much much more proof.

I still think there’s more evidence for Solutrean migration then any other serious pre-Viking European contact. Though the case is weakening. The possible exception is Basque fishing off the coasts of Newfoundland.

You notice I wrote three paragraphs and didn’t launch one personal attack. I encourage you to try it in future response.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Matt Chisholm had rare and aggressive form of stage IV Lung cancer. He died in his childhood home.

The curse is about a person dying in the act of the search, like digging a tunnel.

Some of the six that died were because of poisonous gas which also lends to the leaving documents in mercury to preserve them theory. High levels of mercury have been corroborated on the island. The levels of mercury should not exist in that area. They corroborated this when they excavated the blue clay pit in the eye of the swamp.

Thanks for the info.

[jmacusa]

And they really think a bunch of 18th. century murderous sea faring psychopaths buried a big pile of money hundreds of feet down in a swamp? Pffftt!

[zaxtres]

Well you mentioned Polynesians.

---

I also mentioned Vikings, Templars, Aztecs and Incas. You didn’t say anything about their DNA being found in Ohio. I also mentioned trade was here before the Vikings which if you know a smidgeon of the Miamisburg Mound history you would know it predates the Vikings. The point of the discussion, which does include the people’s of the Pacific, is that ancient historical man was on the move long before Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492 and possibly even much much earlier. The discussion about the second Snake Mound found in Scotland points to this premise. Archeology was built on circumstantial evidence when there are no written records to go off of. And that is the point. We find artifacts and we speculate why they were there and how they got there. The history of North America does not begin with the voyage of Columbus and it doesn’t begin with the Vikings nor the Templars. There was global trade routes, not just the Mediterranean and not just landlocked countries, probably going back way before Jesus was born. I haven’t even discussed trade in the Asiatic area for they were known to travel vast distances by sea.

The animmal mounds found in the midwest that are not Miamisburg mound also date pre-vikiing trade (the Lodestone is a peice of evidence Eric the Great explored as far west as Wisconsin).

You have Viking buildings on an Island at the mouth of the St Lawrence River. The Viking settlement had food that was not native to Canada. It was speculated that the structures were there as stopping point before heading further West.

Oak Island is NOT the only evidence that Europeans came to North America. The evidence found on Oak Island date from the early 1500’s to today. The island has a documented history and evidence soldiers at the time of the American Revolution.

Alas you forget, that Oak Island was mentioned several times in this thread as being in Reader’s Digest back in the 60’s. Also you forget that the age of documentation on the computer is still young. The world does not even have one-tenth of all documents uploaded to the computer. There are more findings when you visit an archive of documents than you could ever find on a computer using google-like search. The US National Archives project is still ongoing in this regard. The ship logs were done by hand and pencil. You think they would be in any computer. Not in the slightest chance. So the “tv evidence” as was so ignorantly put out by a previous thread it showed how ludicrous the argument was that the show was a fraud.

Again not knowing history of something you supposedly knew something about does not help your case. The discovery of history evolves through discovery not through revisionist history. It would behoove you to come up to speed with the Miamisburg Mound current revelations before you spout inaccurate information.

[CJ Wolf]

remember the beele code? that could bring some big money on YT tV. I could make that happen. throw in some bigfoot hunters and pan gold. could crack that code with todays super computer models. who are hot. they need special fans and cooling devices.

[zaxtres]

And they really think a bunch of 18th. century murderous sea faring psychopaths buried a big pile of money hundreds of feet down in a swamp? Pffftt!

---

Depends on your definition of the sea-faring psychopaths are. The latest theory was that, I believe it was Ft. Fredrick, the occupants of the Fort knew they were going to be attacked and to hide the gold they held took it to Oak Island and buried it. The credence that gives this theory credibility is that the fort has the same underground architecture fraught with traps as does oak island. While the Ft Frederick was a bastion against those pesky psychopath American Privateers, it has changed hands several times between the English and Spanish. That is part of Oak Island history you would have never have guessed because everyone is so focused on the Templar theory. The last episode called Timeline goes back over all the theories that have come to the island since the show started backed up by artifacts found on the island.

The swamp is interesting not only because of the high levels of mercury found within the blue clay pit but because several experts, an archaeologist and several geologists, have put their reputations on the line that the stone platform found at the bottom of the swamp was man made. This was corroborated through testing of the wood found between the stones on the platform that was excavated.

The swammp’s depth was roughly 10 feet at the most not hundred’s of feet down as you so eloquently put it. That was 10 feet before hitting dry organic matter. But hey you are the expert on swammps and you know exactly how deep the swamp is, reight? Eh?

[jmacusa]

Mr Sarcastic I caught the first couple of seasons and saw these guys digging way down and finding basically nothing. A few artifacts but no pile of money.

[zaxtres]

And your point is? Mr Hurt Jeans...

[jmacusa]

I’m not hurt at all Mr. Smart Ass. I’m just saying the two guys are either stupid or the audience is . Being suckered in to watch these two yahoos digging in the mud. People like you.

[21twelve]

The tall gangly guy with the messy hair is the one with the big dream. His brother made a lot of money in the oil business and was/is sort of interested in Oak Island, but needed to be sold on it by his brother. To add some drama I’ve seen him say stuff like “Well, unless we have some real proof by the end of the year I’m not going to fund it anymore.” And then of course, on the last episode of the season they find a piece of gold chain or an old coin 100 feet down!

I watched it for several seasons. I don’t watch much TV anymore, but if I came across it I would stop and watch it again. The last show I watched they went back to Europe to look for clues. One was a church used by the Knight’s Templar.

A fresco in the wall of the church (dated at 1200 AD or whatever) there is an image of what could be a cob of corn - or maybe it was the stalk.

“Could this really be the final clue? A corn of cob on a European church dating to 1200 AD? But how could this be!? Corn only grew in the New World until it was brought back to Europe in the 1500’s! Did the Knight’s Templar leave a clue as to where their Treasure was???”

I’m guessing there are 20 plants in the old world that might look a bit like corn - but it makes for an interesting story. They hit some other places in Europe, and it was interesting to hear the various histories and how it might tie back into the treasure.

Hmm- I used to make up stories and tell them to my kids at night. One of the running themes was some kids looking for a treasure. Fun stuff to imagine.

[jmacusa]

The gold chain and coin could have been a plant. In the parlance of these kind of ‘treasure hunting’’ expeditions it's called ‘’salting’’. My whole point here is that , logically thinking a bunch of these 18th. century sea faring criminal types or even someone with half a brain weren't about to go digging enormously time consuming and deep digs just to hide a ‘’treasure’’. Certainly not in the case of pirates. They'd take the loot and quickly blow it on whores and booze. Considering that just in the last few years in Britain at least two British guys, out on their own little farm plots, unknown to each and in different parts of Britain just walking along with a simple hand held metal detector have come across a treasure drove of fabulously made gold amulets, bracelets, rare gems and other incredible stuff just inches below the surface and it appears, some of it to date back to the time of the first Viking invasions with, I think were some time in the 5th. or 6th. century(around 400 or 500 a.d.) I can't swear to the exact time line but the London museum verified the stuff as the real deal and these two guys ended up well off. What I'm getting at is the whole show is con game.

[zaxtres]

It’s better to be a smart one than a dumb one.

[jmacusa]

That is amazingly about the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen posted here. Take a hike, ok pal?