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To: Ikeon

Facts? Here are some facts.

“The constitution must be adopted in toto and forever.” James Madison to Alexander Hamilton 20 July 1788

“Let the thirteen states, bound together in a strict and indissoluble Union, concur in erecting one great America system.” Alexander Hamilton Federalist 11

“Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is seperately and individuality independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious calamities.” Charles Cotesworth Pinckney at the South Carolina ratifying convention, 1788

I could go on but I think you get the point. We even have the thoughts of a founder when a state claimed this imaginary right of secession. During the nullification crisis of 1832 James Maddison wrote to a friend and said this about secession.
“It is high time that the claim to exceed at will should be put down by the public opinion; and I shall be glad to see the task commenced by one who understands the subject.” James Madison letter to Nicholas Trist Dec 23,1832.

If the father of the constitution is against secession then who can be for it? I was born an American and will die an American, I served 21 years in both the Marines and Army, both active duty and reserves, enlisted and officer. I will be against anyone, left or right, that would attack my country.


77 posted on 03/02/2020 6:51:14 AM PST by OIFVeteran
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Nowhere in the constitution is it said a state cannot leave. The Constitution is silent on the matter. Since according to the 10th amendment those powers not delegated by the sovereign states to the federal government remain with the states, the power to secede is one retained by the states.

3 states including the two most important ones did expressly reserve the right to secede when they ratified the constitution. Nobody at the time said this was in any way inconsistent with the constitution. Madison certainly did not say that at the time nor did he say so prior to ratification of the constitution.

But Madison is not a party to the constitution so his opinions are just the opinions of one man. The states are parties to the constitution. What did they agree to?

“We, the delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected in pursuance of a recommendation from the general assembly, and now met in convention, having fully and freely investigated and discussed the proceedings of the Federal Convention, and being prepared as well as the most mature deliberation hath enabled us to decide thereon, Do, in the name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression, and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will....”

“We, the delegates of the people of New York... do declare and make known that the powers of government may be reassumed by the people whenever it shall become necessary to their happiness; that every power, jurisdiction, and right which is not by the said Constitution clearly delegated to the Congress of the United States, or the department of the government thereof, remains to the people of the several States, or to their respective State governments, to whom they may have granted the same; and that those clauses in the said Constitution, which declare that Congress shall not have or exercise certain powers, do not imply that Congress is entitled to any powers not given by the said Constitution; but such clauses are to be construed either as exceptions in certain specified powers or as inserted merely for greater caution.”

“We, the delegates of the people of Rhode Island and Plantations, duly elected... do declare and make known... that the powers of government may be resumed by the people whenever it shall become necessary to their happiness; that every power, jurisdiction, and right which is not by the said Constitution clearly delegated to the Congress of the United States, or the department of the government thereof, remains to the people of the several States, or to their respective State governments, to whom they may have granted the same; that Congress shall guarantee to each State its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Constitution expressly delegated to the United States.”

EVERY state understood itself to have the right to unilateral secession. Remember, these same states had seceded from the British Empire just 8 years earlier after fighting a bloody 8 year war to do so. They made sure each state was named individually as being completely sovereign and independent in the 1783 Treaty of Paris. They were hardly going to agree to bind themselves forever just 8 years later to what everybody acknowledged was an experiment.


93 posted on 03/02/2020 7:58:46 AM PST by FLT-bird
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To: OIFVeteran

Allow me to blockade your home, You cannot leave, you cannot get groceries, go to the doctor witth a sick kid , you cannot leave your home, and you are forced to starve to death at gun point. you surrender NOW And we will let you go to the store but you will be taxed 50% or everything you make and we will supply the bread at whatever price we want to charge. You, your w ife and children become indentured servants of the local politicians. And I will kill anyone in your household who lifts a finger in protest. Your move.. And if you do a dam thing Iwill let your clone brothers kill you


136 posted on 03/02/2020 1:36:06 PM PST by Ikeon (Public schoool? Your kid is just a number, grant money, another brick in the wall)
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