Posted on 09/26/2019 7:28:51 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Whoaaaaa! Are you seriously attacking my family?
1. Missouri was a BORDER STATE
2. Besides #1, anyone already residing in the South
when the CW broke out and chose to remain loyal to
the Union could not possibly be considered a traitor
to a cause they had NEVER professed loyalty to. Any
diehard Rebel can grasp that concept.
3. The official Confederate officer on site ORDERED
the local Confederate irregulars (neighbors) to
march the prisoners to a prison in Springfield, MO.
Instead, the local rebels took them down the road,
camped overnight and executed them in the morn. You
OK with that?
4. Sam Davis, son of Clemiel, managed to escape
although wounded. He never considered the “neighbors”
who murdered his father to be anything other than
“bushwhackers”. That is why he had no problem killing the
six or seven murderers. Sam’s father inlaw had been a
a Sgt in Clemiel’s Missouri Homeguard Co so when he
betrayed Clemiel etal he proved to be a real traitor
and so was dealt with by his son inlaw, Sam.
5. Clemiel Davis and his family were never invaders.
They had been in Southern Missouri since the 1840s.
Clemiel is among the honored Pioneers of Stone County.
Sam was never indicted for killing the bushwhackers.
He died in 1983 at the age of 83.
6. When word reached the family that Clemiel had
been killed Sam’s 15 year old brother, John Wesley
was sent to locate and retrieve Clemiel’s body.
He discovered his father, Clemiel, had been decapitated.
John Wesley Davis was my great grandfather.
Still think my family were traitors?
TYPO!!!!!!
I meant to type 1923
Whoaaaaa! Are you seriously attacking my family?
1. Missouri was a BORDER STATE
2. Besides #1, anyone already residing in the South
when the CW broke out and chose to remain loyal to
the Union could not possibly be considered a traitor
to a cause they had NEVER professed loyalty to. Any
diehard Rebel can grasp that concept.
3. The official Confederate officer on site ORDERED
the local Confederate irregulars (neighbors) to
march the prisoners to a prison in Springfield, MO.
Instead, the local rebels took them down the road,
camped overnight and executed them in the morn. You
OK with that?
4. Sam Davis, son of Clemiel, managed to escape
although wounded. He never considered the “neighbors”
who murdered his father to be anything other than
“bushwhackers”. That is why he had no problem killing the
six or seven murderers. Sam’s father inlaw had been a
a Sgt in Clemiel’s Missouri Homeguard Co so when he
betrayed Clemiel etal he proved to be a real traitor
and so was dealt with by his son inlaw, Sam.
5. Clemiel Davis and his family were never invaders.
They had been in Southern Missouri since the 1840s.
Clemiel is among the honored Pioneers of Stone County.
Sam was never indicted for killing the bushwhackers.
He died in 1923 at the age of 83.
6. When word reached the family that Clemiel had
been killed Sam’s 15 year old brother, John Wesley
was sent to locate and retrieve Clemiel’s body.
He discovered his father, Clemiel, had been decapitated.
John Wesley Davis was my great grandfather.
Still think my family were traitors?
I am pointing out that I fully understand why a family would regard someone who helped the invaders as a traitor to the family.
1. Missouri was a BORDER STATE
From what i've read, it remained a Union state only because some out of control Union officers got quite violent in preventing the state from doing anything else. It was a Union state for the same reason Maryland was a Union state, because it was held by military force against the will of the populace.
2. Besides #1, anyone already residing in the South when the CW broke out and chose to remain loyal to the Union could not possibly be considered a traitor to a cause they had NEVER professed loyalty to. Any diehard Rebel can grasp that concept.
States may come and go, but everyone owes loyalty to their family. In tight knit communities, the community is a sort of extended family. "Kith and Kin" are the people you should respect and defend, especially against outsiders.
Missouri may not have felt a strong desire to join the Confederacy, though I've read that it wanted to do so, but it should have at the very least objected to the invasion of the other states. That is not the behavior of a nation founded on the right to independence.
3. The official Confederate officer on site ORDERED the local Confederate irregulars (neighbors) to march the prisoners to a prison in Springfield, MO. Instead, the local rebels took them down the road, camped overnight and executed them in the morn. You OK with that?
No. I didn't read it that way when you first wrote it. I thought it was an extemporaneous event having no sanction or control from any government body. A Vigilante type event. Now that you've clarified it, they should have been brought up on charges themselves for disobeying orders as well as murder under color of official sanction.
4. Sam Davis, son of Clemiel, managed to escape although wounded. He never considered the “neighbors” who murdered his father to be anything other than “bushwhackers”.
Common criminals are a different matter. If they were just killing for the sake of robbery or just for the sake of killing, they deserve to be killed in return.
5. Clemiel Davis and his family were never invaders. They had been in Southern Missouri since the 1840s.
No one said they were invaders. What I said is that if they were helping the invaders, I could understand why the family would regard them as traitors.
The Vichy in France are an example of natives helping the invaders.
First, I assume that by “invaders” you mean the the
Union forces. Advise me if it means something else.
And, by “family” do you mean my personal family included
in my story (i.e. Clemiel, Samuel, and John Wesley
Davis) or do you include the father inlaw of my uncle Sam
in there somewhere? His name was Bill Manning and he
deserved to die at the hands of my uncle. He was a
traitor to the cause he pledged an oath to defend and
the surviving military records reflect that fact.
The facts on the ground in Missouri were much more
complicated than some crazy Union officers holding
the state hostage. Each side had plenty of loyalists.
Generally, the Union supporting militias were referred
to as Home Guard while Confederate leaning militias
were State Guards.
You seem to be wrapped up in an invader concept where
states invade other states. While that was true for
most of the CW (my term for brevity purposes) there
was truly a split between the citizens of Missouri.
I don’t believe your rules apply here. In a county
that borders Arkansas there were tons...hundreds
of Home Guard (Union)volunteers. I’ve seen the list
of Clemiel’s Co E alone.
You talk about loyalty to one’s family/community.
In the case of St Louis there was a large German
community which leaned toward the Union. All sorts of
things contribute to loyalties.
I am a fourth generation Californian on my mom’s
side. I am also a strong conservative, as well.
As things are if there was a war between the US
and California me and my friends would side with
the US. If the political script was flipped I
would go the other way.
You talk about bringing these murderous bushwhackers
up on charges as if there was some kind controlling
authority at the place and time. I doubt it. Remember,
even AFTER the war Samuel Davis was not indicted
for the retribution he dealt in Stone County.
I still feel that the Southern states should have been allowed to go their own way in peace, and that a bloody war pitting family against family to establish Washington DC supremacy was a tragedy in every sense of the word.
We are still living with the consequences of making the Federal government into some sort of god.
If so then why are many of America’s poorest states ex slaves states which also happen to have the highest proportion of black populations in the country?
I’m from the poorest which is .....shazaam sergeant Carter.......also the blackest at 38%
Why haven’t these civilization builders turned their freedom into all this majesty now after 7 generations
Oh I know...another perfect excuse
White man prevented them from their usual success at towering civilized culture building....
I thank you for your thoughtful words. You have
my respect. Thank you for your interest, as well.
I have always had a deep respect for those who
legitimately fought for the South (with exception
for the bushwhacker elements on either side).
Not all Confederate soldiers owned slaves, of course.
Regardless, if armies from other areas invaded my
home area I would be driven to fight a war, too.
On another note I have much agreement with the
idea that the Constitution did not do a very good
job of preventing secession. But I also
understand that from the perspective of the US to
allow states to secede would eventually make the
remaining nation vulnerable to foreign nations,
especially England.
Sounds like a Clint Eastwood movie...
Interesting you mention that. The first time I read
the account I was reminded of Eastwood’s ‘The Outlaw
Josie Wales’. As to the authenticity there are two
witnesses. One is victim, Sam M Davis & the other is
William B Cox, the son of John Cox who was murdered
along with friend and fellow prisoner, Clemiel Davis.
William was a teenager who had been captured along
with his dad, Clemiel Davis, and Sam Davis. The
bushwhackers released William & told him to go home,
Instead he followed the group while staying hidden
Later, he shared his account in a letter. It was
similar to the account of Sam Davis.
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