I think you are correct, the second in command when a derp is head, is also a derp.
But when did this convo with Trump and the Ukraine president occur?
Well, that took me some digging... but here is the information and then I’ll link the BBC article. I didn’t trust reading CNN, NBC, CNBC, Wapo.. or anyone else.
“Mr Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky had a phone conversation on 25 July this year.”
I have only skimmed the rest of the article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49800181
Petey