Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: DiogenesLamp

Considering that James Madison, the father of the constitution, said this about secession during the nullifications crisis of 1832;

James Madison letter on nullification crisis
December 23, 1832, Montpellier.

“Dr. Sir I have received yours of the 19th, inclosing some of the South Carolina papers. There are in one of them some interesting views of the doctrine of secession; one that had occurred to me, and which for the first time I have seen in print; namely that if one State can at will withdraw from the others, the others can at will withdraw from her, and turn her, nolentem, volentem, out of the union. Until of late, there is not a State that would have abhorred such a doctrine more than South Carolina, or more dreaded an application of it to herself. The same may be said of the doctrine of nullification, which she now preaches as the only faith by which the Union can be saved.

I partake of the wonder that the men you name should view secession in the light mentioned. The essential difference between a free Government and Governments not free, is that the former is founded in compact, the parties to which are mutually and equally bound by it. Neither of them therefore can have a greater fight to break off from the bargain, than the other or others have to hold them to it......

It is high time that the claim to secede at will should be put down by the public opinion; and I shall be glad to see the task commenced by one who understands the subject.”

And further considering that George Washington suppress the whiskey rebellion at the head of the Army, I think Lincoln’s actions would have been supported by most of the founders.


69 posted on 09/03/2019 3:18:05 PM PDT by OIFVeteran
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies ]


To: OIFVeteran
Considering that James Madison, the father of the constitution, said this about secession during the nullifications crisis of 1832;

In these discussions, 1832 James Madison is constantly dragged out to refute what 1788 James Madison did in fact do.

James Madison was a member of the Virginia Ratification committee that came up with these words for Virginia's ratification of the US Constitution.

"...Do in the name and in behalf of the People of Virginia declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression...

"May be resumed" is pretty clear in meaning that Virginia can take back the powers it is giving up to the Federal Government. 1832 Madison claims no one even suggested any such thing, yet there it is clearly written in the ratification statement created by the committee in which *MADISON* played a very prominent role.

And while we're at it, New York, (The other major player of the Civil War.) Also made it clear in it's ratification statement "That the Powers of Government may be reassumed by the People, whensoever it shall become necessary to their Happiness;".

So in fact, there is more proof that secession was not only understood to be lawful, it was the stated position of two of the most powerful states in the Union.

Rhode Island also made such a statement, but nobody cares about little Rhode Island.

72 posted on 09/03/2019 3:54:47 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies ]

To: OIFVeteran

The Virginia secession convention provides plenty of detail as to the cause of the secession and the resulting war.

The DEMOCRATS initiated the secession AND the war because they wanted to SPREAD slavery.

The REPUBLICAN party was formed in direct opposition to Douglas (D) “Kansas-Nebraska” act. This act violated the Missouri compromise of 30 years prior that sought to limit slavery. It allowed both Kansas and Nebraska tertitories to become slave states by majority votes.

This ill considered law gave us ten bloody years in Kansas before the civil war.

DEMOCRAT fireeaters - led by the treasonous vice president John C Breckenridge were not content to keep their slaves. THEY WERE SEEKING TO EXPAND SLAVERY. They wanted to take their ‘property’ to every location they could settle.

SO DEMOCRATS SECEEDED AND THEN INITIATED HOSTILE ACTION.

On the other hand,

REPUBLICANS were adamantly opposed to slavery but were seeking to remove the institution in a peaceful manner.

President Lincoln sought one compromise after another to avoid the bloody civil war - up to and including the Corwin amendment.

So the REPUBLICAN and LINCOLNS initial purpose for fighiting was to ‘PRESERVE THE UNION’.

However, after much bloodshed, Lincoln expanded his goals to ENDING SLAVERY. The horrible consequences having already been thrust upon the nation by toxic, treasonous DEMOCRATS.

At the Virginia Secession convention - a near thing - speakers from the Seceeding States spoke to the convention to give their reasoning for their actions. Here are the words of the Georgia delegate to Virginia. The cause of the Civil War between Republicans and Democrats does not get any clearer than this.

First paragraph:
“I have been appointed by the Convention of the State of Georgia, to present to this Convention (Virginia), the ordinance of secession of Georgia,

and further, to invite Virginia, thorough this Convention, to join Georgie and the other seceded States in the formation of a Southern Confederacy.

This, sir, is the whole extent of my mission….”

Second paragraph:
”What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession?

This reason may be summed up in one single proposition.

It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia,

that a separation from the North was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery.

This conviction, sir, was the main cause.

It is true, sir, that the effect of this conviction was strengthened by a further conviction that such a separation would be the best remedy for the fugitive slave evil,
.... {Note: This ‘fugitive slave evil’
.... being the the refusal of some Republicans
.... in Northern States
.... to refuse to return escaped slaves}

and also the best, if not the only remedy, for the territorial evil.
.... {Note: This ‘territorial evil’
.... would be the Missouri compromise
.... from thirty or forty years prior
.... where the territories were declared free
.... and slaves were not allowed.
.... The democrats wished to take their slaves
.... with them.}

But, doubtless, if it had not been for the first conviction this step would never have been taken.

It therefore becomes important to inquire whether this conviction was well founded.”

………..Honorable Henry L. Benning, of Georgia
……………addressing the Virginia State Convention
……………on Monday, February 18, 1861
……………the Fifth day of the Convention
....
.... The second speaker from the other States after Mississippi.


199 posted on 09/06/2019 11:01:15 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad ("the media are selling you a line of soap)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson