Posted on 08/29/2019 12:32:05 PM PDT by Morgana
An Ohio homeowner shot dead two teenage boys who he say were 'trespassing' on his property on Wednesday night.
The homeowner has not been named but is being questioned.
He told police that on Wednesday at 9.30pm, he shot the two boys in his 'garage'. He called 911 afterwards.
The boys have been identified as 17-year-olds Devon Henderson and Javier Harrison. It remains unclear if they were trying to break into the property, or what their motive for being there was.
When the homeowner called 911, he told the operator: 'I shot two guys. I shot two persons tried to rob… to do something in my house.'
Dayton Daily News, a local outlet, says one of the teenagers' father's believed they knew the shooter and had been in the garage before.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
I am content to wait for more solid information.
While I don’t expect to be surprised, I still think what most of us think should wait for confirmation.
The homeowner is in a world of legal hurt unless these two upstanding citizens had weapons with them, something to indicate his life was in danger. Yes, I know that your life is in danger even if they are unarmed, especially at my age. But that’s not how it will play out in court.
There's no such thing as "felony trespassing" in Ohio. There's Criminal Trespass, which is a 4th degree misdemeanor, as is "disturbing a lawful meeting."
So he should have let them steal him blind...And when they had cleaned out the garage, then the house, eh??? In my view a homeowner has every right to protect his property...
I do not think that the State of Ohio is going to agree with you on that.
You had better read up on your state’s laws.
What might seem reasonable to you is not the same as the law and the prosecutor cares not one bit what you think except to use it to prove you broke the law.
Following the link in post 226, I saw this:
***“The recent change in that law deals with the burden of proof,” he said. “The burden of proof is now on the state, which includes our detectives and prosecutors to prove that the case was not a case of self-defense, whereas in the past, the burden of proof was on the homeowner or person claiming self-defense.”***
It also appears that the Castle Doctrine is ambiguous in Ohio as to whether or not an unattached garage is covered by that law.
40 feet from the garage to the back door of the house.
Checked it on Google Maps.
848 Conners St, Dayton OH
There’s a human-door facing the house, and the garage door faces sideways into the yard, with what looks like a 10-foot fence on that side. Might be a double-swinging gate in the fence to essentially drive into the yard, then back into the garage, but hard to tell. Cinderblock or poured concrete walls. To shoot them, he had to be *in* the garage, or at the doorway.
8:13 PM
Thursday, August 29, 2019 (EDT)
Sunset in Dayton, OH
So, it was well into “dark”, and one streetlight a block on that street.
Saw this tidbit at your link.
***April Smith says hearing gunshots in their neighborhood is not unusual, but she was surprised when they sounded so close last night.
“I’m right there, the shooting is right there so all of a sudden you hear ‘pop pop pop,’ but I kept hearing voices and stuff. I kept laying down because I’ve got to get up early, so I don’t have time for that, okay?” she said.
“It’s sad now, two 17-year-olds gone. They hadn’t even lived life yet,” Smith said.
She says the homeowner normally has cars in his garage, with police saying last night a car was towed from the scene.
“Don’t nobody hang in there, because that gate is always locked. There’s a chain on there. Only time that gate is open is when he sets his trash out or to cut his grass,” Smith said.***
Seems to be a difference of opinion with the father that was interviewed. This woman says nobody hangs in there, and that the gate is always locked.
nobody likes killings...but you know very well how these stories are reported and directed....there are no details except some inflammatory remarks....we have the right to be discerning about this stuff..
I think that all the State has to do to prove that it was not self defense is to play the 911 tape. He did get a break on the burden of proof. But it is not as big as it seems because the State still has to prove that it was not self defense. Time will tell. I still believe he needs to start getting his affairs in order.
And exactly how do you know that?
When I was a kid we knew we diid not belong on someones property uninvited and knew our life was at risk if we were. Then again police used to say stop or I will shoot and we believed him.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like where men were free. ~ Ronald Reagan
See my 118. I think the article states its a detached garage, which may not apply to castle doctrine.
You can see the corner of it there behind the house.
one of the teenagers’ father’s believed they knew the shooter and had been in the garage before
So they had robbed him once already?
__________________________________________________________________
The teen’s father don’t know when to shut up when he’s in front of a camera. For real he just told the whole world his son ain’t s***.
I am not familiar with the Castle Doctrine. But all the Florida Stand Your Ground, for lack of a better word, says is if you are legally where you are, if attacked, you have no duty to retreat. The prisons of Florida are full of those who misinterpreted that. One cannot instigate the event then claim the protection of the law. I would the Castle Doctrine is something like that.
some states it is only your home, some your enclosed property, some include outbuidings and we don’t know if this garage was attached.
We do know that it is detached, Most likely poured concrete, and the yard is fenced in in the back (6’-10’), with a garage door that opens towards the right side to the inside of the fence instead of to the edge of the property, and a pedestrian door facing the house. Doesn’t look like the vehicle door to the garage is often used.
“
You have the right to defend your castle even if it’s the detached garage.
Cant tell if that was sarcasm or serious. But it really depends on the local/states laws as to whats considered your ‘dwelling’ and when you are ‘justified’ to shoot someone, beyond a clear threat to your life or loved one. “
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A man in Texas defended his neighbor’s property while his neghbors were away on vacation. Some illegals were going in to rob the place, dude called 911 and they could not get there in time so he said what he was going to do and he did it.
Dude was not charged. So yes play stupid games...
From the article: “The recent change in that law deals with the burden of proof,” he said. “The burden of proof is now on the state, which includes our detectives and prosecutors to prove that the case was not a case of self-defense, whereas in the past, the burden of proof was on the homeowner or person claiming self-defense.”
Looks like the police chief is saying it will be considered self defense. With there being a third robber, police can charge HIM with felony murder as an accomplice.
Again I say you had better read up on the laws in your state.
In most states, the law is that you have a reason to believe your life is in danger if you are in the house while it is being broken into.
The logic is that you have no way of knowing whether your door is being breached to get at your valuables or to get at you.
On the other hand, if you arrive at your house while a burglary is in progress, you can not shoot unless the bad guy is armed and a definite threat to your safety and you were unaware that he was in your house.
The logic being that he did not break in to hurt you, but rather to steal your stuff knowing you were not home.
That is based on the philosophy that no matter how much your stuff is worth, maybe even hundreds of thousands, the life of the most unworthy human scum is worth more.
The law is especially hard on those who could see from the street that something was amiss, a strange car in the driveway, the door standing open, a broken window, etc., and did not withdraw to a safe distance and call the cops.
Entering your house knowing a burglary is in progress is very bad judgement both from a legal standpoint and from the standpoint of personal safety.
Arguing whether the laws are just will not save your butt in court. The prosecution will only use your opinion against you to show you care not what the laws are.
As for the castle doctrine, so often quoted by those who have no idea what they are talking about, it does not negate any of the requirements for a lawful self defense shoot. In reality, all it does is eliminate the requirement that you attempt to flee plus it protects the lawful shooter from civil lawsuits. And it defines those places where it can be claimed.
I am not a lawyer. Just someone who carries and realizes how treacherous self defense laws are.
I doubt if he robbed him before. He might have stolen from him before. But that is not robbery. Or, who knows, he could have invited him over. Probably not very probable, but not out of the question if, as alleged they knew each other.
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