Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: SoFloFreeper
NYU music professor and musicologist Lawrence Ferrara -- illustrating that two much-older songs, “Jolly Old St. Nicholas” and “Merrily We Roll Along,” feature nearly-identical instrumental sequences.

When I hear about one musician suing another for allegedly copying their music, I often wonder who the one suing copied from. As long as music's been around, I doubt there are very many totally unique and original sounds and rhythms produced by anyone. Everything is derivative to some extent.

There probably are some instances of blatant copying, but when I've listened to some of the music supposedly copied, there is often little obvious similarity between the two being compared.

7 posted on 07/21/2019 4:39:26 PM PDT by Will88 (The only people opposing voter ID are those benefiting from voter fraud.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Will88

https://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I


10 posted on 07/21/2019 4:58:12 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: Will88

Indeed. As they say there are only so many notes.

Some songs are pretty blatant - to wit, Led Zeppelin stole the melodies, chord progressions and lyrics straight from classic bluesmen like Howlin’ Wolf and Muddy Waters, and also from Joan Baez (who, for some reason, didn’t find out they stole her song “Babe I’m gonna leave you” it until about 10 years later) and the song “Dazed And Confused” from Jake Holmes. Holmes didn’t sue them until about 40 years after the fact (he did know about it) and they settled out of court.

Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters accused Andrew Lloyd Webber of stealing a riff off their Echos album but they didn’t litigate it. That was the first time I has personally heard a song (Webber’s Phantom of the Opera) and recognized instantly that the riff sounded very familiar. I don’t think that Pink Floyd was the first to put a melody that sounded like that riff to paper but also don’t think they stole it, either. In musical theory that riff is just a chromatic 3rd run up and down the scale. Musicians practice it all the time learning their scales. It has been done many times in classical composition.

And you might say Waters has a lot of gumption considering how Pink Floyd’s song “One of These Days” is very similar to the “Theme from Dr. Who”.

Nirvana’s song “Come As You Are” riff is almost identical to the song “Eighties” by Killing Joke and they knew it at the time it was recorded - the producers considered trying to license it and I am personally convinced Kobain knew that song very well. It is also nearly identitical to the song “22 Faces” by Garden of Delight and “Life Goes On” from The Damned - and even a bit like “Baby Come Back” from The Equals. That last one, it is noticeably similar but also noticeably different. Nirvana’s composition has ‘more notes’ as it were. When Vanilla Ice was accused by Queen’s publisher for stealing their famous “Under Pressure” bass riff, Vanilla Ice’s defense was that he added 1 extra note to the riff. But rather than litigate it, Vanilla Ice reportedly just ended up purchasing the rights to the Queen/Bowie song. Probably a smart move.

As the years have gone by, popular music has become more and more skeletal and simplified and repetitive. And it is derivative, often deliberately (e.g. sampling) because certain riffs are popular, familiar and/or recognizable hooks that draw the listener in. If you go from Echoes to Phantom, the Phantom version is simpler - and orchestrated differently. And the Vanilla Ice riff is just the riff without much of any of the structure found in the Queen song. My opinion, music has gotten worse - less like music, less like furniture and more like Ikea. Just put some rectangular pieces together and see who will buy it.

Just to name a few. I have no idea about Katy Perry. Not my cup of tea.


21 posted on 07/21/2019 5:21:51 PM PDT by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: Will88

I took four Western Music History courses ten years ago (Gregorian Chant through Twentieth Century), as well as History of Jazz, and History of Rock. The latter two in particular devoted time to the issue of copyright infringement.

My recollection is that up to a seven-tone-sequence sample is permitted; after that, royalties are due.

While I agree to some extent with your opinion, if a musician listens to a an entire piece, the combination of harmonic progression, basic beat, note values, various rhythms, et cetera, can produce a fairly idiosyncratic whole.

When I hear something that sounds derivative of a prior hit song, it is usually not just one parameter, e.g., note for note sequence, that causes me to think that.

I do agree that some of the high-profile cases that ruled infringement were very questionable; I think political correctness plays a big role in those.


36 posted on 07/21/2019 8:30:22 PM PDT by YogicCowboy ("I am not entirely on anyone's side, because no one is entirely on mine." - J. R. R. Tolkien)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson