Posted on 07/17/2019 6:06:33 PM PDT by RevelationDavid
That's like saying "Paul Anka wrote and sang the song, 'My Way'. Frank Sinatra just covered it." :-)
A careful reading of the song information at the youtube link I provided, will reveal that it plainly denotes that Hoyt Axton wrote the song. However, I bet that (besides you and me), not more than a handful of people here ever actually heard Hoyt's own various renditions of his song (which I believe he didn't release until a couple years after the Steppenwolf version was already a "hit"). The popular, most well-known version (of course) was the Steppenwolf one I posted, which had been used in the movie "Easy Rider", and that's the one some people back then would actually choose to not listen to because of the lyrics, once they were aware of them. I believe that the "Steppenwolf" version was the one the poster I replied to here was referring to, none of the other virtually unknown versions that are out there.
Nothing at all that Shakespeare wrote was "cryptic"! His explicit descriptions of sex specific physical attributes, that many of his male characters say, though the words are NOT in common usage today, were extremely common when he wrote them in many different plays.
Though Jews had been barred from living in England for 100s of years, when Willie the Shake was writing, his anti-Semetic sentiment, in a few plays ( no, used NOT just against Shylock in THE MERCHANT OF VENICE !); especially in the Scottish Play ( nope, I never say nor spell out the title nor lead character of that play and if you have to ask why; you don't really know much about Shakespearean plays)and what the witches say!
Oaths? Using GOD's name?* Oooooooooooooooooooo...there are just tons and tons of them and not just GOD, but the Christ too;some are even combined with sexual stuff; you obviously 1) are NOT as familiar with all of Shakespeare's work 2) don't understand the words he used 3)are more than just a tad confused 4) all 3.
And now, to be a kind and helpful person, is a small list of books, which you should make yourself familiar with, by reading them!
THE ANNOTATED SHAKESPEARE, by A. L. Rouse ( a Brit authority on Shakespeare and several other subjects, whose Shakespeare bio is also quite good )
Naughty Shakespeare, by Michael Macrone
Witches and Jesuits, by Garry Wills
Shakespeare and the Jews, by James Shapiro
And should you require more books to read, I will gladly supply you with more titles, including those of my old college text, from a very extensive and fascinating class I had on Shakespeare.
* Please look up the actual meaning of : zounds, Od's Bodkins ( if you can't find the answer, ask me in FRmail ), and chesu.
What was your original nic here, retread?
I've been here much longer than 20 years and I well remember what FR was like back then and through the rest of its existence.
Pssssssssssssssssssssssssst...this is NOT 1939, when a whole lot of people were shocked, SHOCKED, I TELL YA,when Clark Gable actually uttered the word "DAMN" ( sans GOD, mind you ) in GONE WITH THE WIND.
I know and I’m just tweeking you; though truth to tell, Henry II was NOT at all genteel, though his wife, Eleanor of Acquitaine was sort of. Their children? LOL...and that’s just for starters of the laughs.
Thank you, I wasn’t sure since you didn’t include the OP in the ping.
Makes it a tad confusing.
Yes, that was my mistake.
I totally agree. I watched the entire rally and saw nothing worth being concerned about. Any one making a fuss over this is either overly pious or a troll.
If Trump is not a Christian, what difference does it make?
Not a problem. All cleared up now. :)
Apparently the OP didn’t believe strongly enough in his outrage to ever give an example in spite of a dozen or more requests for one. Real conviction there alrighty!
I don’t think I was trying to make any point except that script writing today uses gratuitous vulgarities and profanities because because the writers lack few substantial script writing abilities. That was not an affront to Shakespeare as he most definitely used his acute sense and command of the English language to convey, more often than not, any meaningful dialogue attributed to the subject that the play was written about.
Did Shakespeare in fact use profanity and vulgarity and cryptic profanity, or as you call them allusions, but which I call cryptic profanity because allusions are much more broad-based than cryptic profanity. Of course Shakespeare did. But his employment of those writing devices we’re not as glaringly gratuitous as produced by writers today.
I also think that theater and Cinema suffer at the hands of writers who have lost the real art of writing. Profanity and vulgarity does not a script make. Yet Hollywood seems to think differently then I do.
My apologies if I pissed you off by the lack of clarity of my thought but it is my thought on the subject.
My very first reply to you was that I had NOT said nor posted what your post was about and you NEVER replied to that!
Helpful advice....should you, in future, post something that refers to the thread...POST IT TO THE FIRST POST AN D SAY THAT IT APPLIES TO THAT MESSAGE, SO THAT THERE IS NO MISUNDERSTANDING!
Today's "excuse" just does NOT hold up!
Don't you EVER read what I post, but only write ridiculous CRAP, trying to refute me and losing, in the attempt to "prove" that you are correct and I'm not?
Frankly, I don't know WHY I even bothered replying to you, with examples and which plays you can find what I was talking about can be found!
Sure, Shakespeare wrote some fantastic plays ( not all of them are "gems" ! )and whilst I do believe that he wrote them, I also know that he cribbed stuff from other plays/authors, added a massive amount of political propaganda to curry favor with the monarch of the time, and had to be careful of that day's censors, who could prevent plays from ever being seen ...he STILL loaded every single play with vulgarities, profanities, the taking of GOD and Jesus' name in vain, obscene sexual stuff!
THE ONLY THINGS HE OMITTED WAS TODAY'S EXPLICIT SEX SCENES/NUDITY ON STAGE AND CAR CRASHES THAT ARE IN THE MOVIES!
OTOH...there's suicides, murders, torture, and lots of blood!
Today's supposed writers have lousy vocabularies, NO imagination at all, and less story telling skills than the average 6 year old had in 1950!
“Today’s supposed writers have lousy vocabularies, NO imagination at all, and less story telling skills than the average 6 year old had in 1950!”
Agreed, and I thank you for the information you imparted on Shakespeare, I just haven’t had time to follow up on any of that today but I will.
Part of mmy experience with Shakespeare has always been theatrical productions and Cliff Notes and perhaps the odd Shakespearean movie none of which go to the extent of the profanity and vulgarity that you have explained.
I’m going to have to read unabridged scripts, as I don’t think I ever really recognize what I have read as being abridged in the first place.
Unfortunately I don’t have any unabridged Shakespearean Scripts at my fingertips, if you have a link I would appreciate it.
Actually no, I don’t really have to partake or read any vulgar unabridged versions of Shakespearean work. I’ll just take your word for it, but a link would be nice.
I saw some of the movie versions as a kid, on T.V. and in school, they started having us read Shakespeare in the 7th grade; also doing actual scenes as well.
High school...more of the same.
College...had a class on Shakespeare, one on Early English Theatre, another one on just 16th-17th century playwrites/plays, and we put on many of his plays; which I was in and/or worked on!
I have seen and own a large amount, from the silents onward, movies of his plays, about him, and also about his contemporaries. Also T.V. series and productions.
And then there are the books that I have read and own.
Please don't imagine that I am trying to show off/impress/whatever; I'm just trying to tell you the depth and breadth of my experience, since you stated yours.
LOL...I've even read critiques of Orson Welles' very imaginative movie versions...all of which I have seen/own on disc and have enjoyed!
When I like something, yes, I really do immerse myself in the study of it.
The censors didn't touch some of Shakespeare's oldest plays, so if you've read and/or seen those, they weren't expurgated versions...you just didn't "catch" the prurient,vulgar,and oath/curses bits.
Oh...and movies DO cut the scripts down and sadly, usually omit all of the lovely songs.
Take a chill p[ill. It appears that you are mentally unstable.
Sadly, you are the one with the problem. Please seek help.
Heck Yes!
FRiend.
I buy You a Beer.
Heck Yes!
FRiend.
I buy You a Beer.
Not to be rude, but I hate beer.......taste like acid reflux.....ewwwwww....... but you can buy me a 7&7.......lol
And you appear to be done. Person of his word.
I'm very good with that.
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