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Review of "Armies of Sand: . . . Arab Military Effectiveness" by Kenneth M. Pollack
self | 2019 | Kenneth M. Pollack

Posted on 07/15/2019 2:25:00 PM PDT by LS

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To: PUGACHEV

” One of our favorite conversations was the different ways our clients lied to us”

What an interesting bit of cultural observations. Thanks.


21 posted on 07/15/2019 5:38:42 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Zhang Fei

Perhaps, most polls I’ve seen show that some 10% of muslims worldwide support jihad/murder of non muslims. The Saudi’s are particular scum for funding Wahhabist mosques in other countries, no doubt to keep the murderers away from them.


22 posted on 07/15/2019 6:30:26 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: LS

I read that in the 1967 war, while Israel was beating the crap out of Egypt, their allies, the Syrians, asked how things were going. Egypt in effect, said they were slaughtering the Israelis and now was the time to get in.

The Israelis got wind of this and because they were doing so well, moved a lot of troops up the entire length of Israel and waited.

The Syrians believed the Egyptians, stormed across,got their azz beat, and lost the Golan Heights to boot.

[Sidebar] Dunno if it’s an Urban Legend, but Israel was supposed to have a mole in the Syrian military. He mentioned how hot it was for their troops on the Golan Heights and suggested they plant trees to shade the emplacements. A few years later when the war broke out, the Israelis targeted all the groves of trees and wiped out the emplacements.


23 posted on 07/15/2019 7:40:18 PM PDT by Oatka
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To: Oatka

In fact Egypt learnt the lesson and their initial offensive against Israel in 1973 was a sweeping success.
Then the Syrians bogged down and asked Egypt to keep pushing on their front but the Egyptian generals had no plans to move forward as they reached initial objectives.
Egyptian politicians took over to pushed further and it ended in another disaster for Egypt and Israel’s victory.


24 posted on 07/16/2019 3:58:34 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: Oatka

You are 100% correct. Pollack discusses this. It came during the first day of the war when the Egyptian air was being slaughtered, and yet reported they were winning. The Syrians heard about it, and jumped in on day 2, only to have the Israelis turn their attention to THEM!


25 posted on 07/16/2019 5:53:13 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: DUMBGRUNT

Just cuz a guy went nuts doesn’t mean all his analysis was bad, and just cuz a guy was a “war hero” (aka McTurd) doesn’t mean that his subsequent positions are honorable.

MacArthur’s “Island Hopping” was brilliant for 1944, but his requests for multiple atomic bombs in Korea was idiotic in 1951.


26 posted on 07/16/2019 5:54:38 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: LS
Arab culture is a "shame culture". Losing face is bad. Admitting fault is hard. This makes it hard for them to field an effective Western-style military organization.

SHAME, THE ARAB PSYCHE, AND ISLAM

27 posted on 07/16/2019 6:07:08 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: TigerHawk
In OUR culture , once a man’s word is no good, once he’s proven a liar, he is held in contempt, and dishonor, and never trusted again. His word is no good. Arabs have absolutely NO CONCEPT of this, they lie to each other constantly, and govern themselves in all matters accordingly, and think us fools, and laugh at us.

Honor and trust are strengths of our culture. The strength of that, however, is dependent upon the ability to declare that X is a liar and untrustworthy.

The great WEAKNESS of our current culture, is that openly saying that Arabs, as a culture, cannot be trusted, will get you declared a "racist" and get YOU held in contempt and dishonor, and shunned by "proper" people.

28 posted on 07/16/2019 6:18:59 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: PapaBear3625

Yes. As Pollack says, making the mistake is bad, but admitting it is worse.


29 posted on 07/16/2019 6:21:35 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: LS

This article reminded me of the Patton quote regarding Arabs and how the fatalistic teachings of Muhammad is what keeps them stuck in the eighth century.
Funny thing. While searching Bing or Google I can’t find it. It appears that it is being scrubbed from the Internet. Curious.


30 posted on 07/16/2019 6:25:17 AM PDT by Spruce
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To: Spruce

https://www.azquotes.com/quote/556884


31 posted on 07/16/2019 6:29:53 AM PDT by jjotto (Next week, BOOM!, for sure!)
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To: Oatka

It’s not an urban legend. That “Mole” was Eli Cohen (Eliyahu/Elijah), an Egyptian born Jew, who became the advisor to the Syrian Minister of Defense. I believe that he was found out by a quirk of fate power outage in Damascus, during a routine radio transmission, but I have forgotten the details. He was a good “friend” of Assad the Elder, who became so embarrassed that nothing, not a huge ransom, or pleas from nations around the world, could dissuade him from having Cohen publicly hanged.

Google the name, ELI COHEN. Should be an interesting read.


32 posted on 07/16/2019 6:32:09 AM PDT by TigerHawk
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To: marktwain

Islam has no recognition, let alone respect, and observance, of the Ten Commandments (NOT Suggestions!). Islam is such that it could ONLY have been conceived by the “EVIL IMPULSE”, Satan, the Devil himself, and nothing else.

Only a Muslim, a Liberal (even those who think of themselves as Jews, or Christians), a Moron, or a Madman, could possibly think otherwise.


33 posted on 07/16/2019 6:45:52 AM PDT by TigerHawk
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To: NorseViking

Egyptian ground forces were pushed beyond the protection of the missile defense umbrella that held off the Israeli Air Force, which then swooped in and wreaked havoc upon them. Then the tanks came in. Unfortunately, the armored corps had such success during the ‘67, Six Day War, that they got big headed, and in ‘73, they moved forward without infantry cover, and suffered disastrous consequences. Wire guided anti-tank missiles took them completely by surprise, and they paid a heavy price until they realized that if the machine gunner fired at the operator who guided the missile to its target with a sort of joy stick, it really tended to disrupt his concentration, and aim...especially if it killed him outright. Arrogance cost them dearly, as it always does to those who succumb to it.

Israeli Command knew that the attack was coming, but Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel at the time, insisted that the Arabs be allowed to strike first for PR reasons, so the world would not see Israel as the aggressor. Really stupid, unforgivable mistake that cost many, many Israeli lives, for no worthwhile reason at all. Every person, or government, sees what they want to see. Posing and posturing is nothing compared to reality. In a street fight, gun fight, or a war, NEVER let the other guy get the first shot in if you can help it at all. Violence is not tiddly winks! She made a great mistake that haunted her to the day she died. May she Rest in Peace.


34 posted on 07/16/2019 7:25:18 AM PDT by TigerHawk
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To: PapaBear3625

I’ll tell ya, I’ve been called the worst, by the worst, stood alone against many with nothing but G-D and TRUTH to uphold me, and I don’t now, nor have I ever, nor will I ever, give a rat’s azz about the opinions, or catcalls of morons.
And I take great pride in that. They can ALL kiss my patootie (whatever the hell that is!).


35 posted on 07/16/2019 7:37:29 AM PDT by TigerHawk
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To: TigerHawk

Thanks for the tip. I think it was on the History Channel’s airing of the 1967 War. I broke up when I heard it, then had second thoughts and wondered if it was an exaggeration.


36 posted on 07/16/2019 9:04:56 AM PDT by Oatka
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To: Oatka

Truth is always stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense, Truth don’t care. Like they say, “Can’t make this Schiff up!”


37 posted on 07/16/2019 9:14:10 AM PDT by TigerHawk
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To: Spruce

The book?

https://www.amazon.com/Armies-Sand-Present-Military-Effectiveness/dp/0190906960/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Armies+of+Sand&qid=1563294451&s=gateway&sr=8-1


38 posted on 07/16/2019 9:27:40 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: SunkenCiv; gandalftb
the 1991 Gulf War, which resulted in astounding loss-to-kill ratios for the Iraqis, came because once deprived of Soviet guidelines and command and control, Iraqis were “incapable” of “dogfighting or even fleeing effectively.

In the 80s that was the general estimate of Russian pilots as well in case they had no command and control: “highly trained monkeys”

39 posted on 07/16/2019 9:59:42 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith
In the 1973 war, the Soviet pilots who had trained the Egyptian air force openly ridiculed the Egyptian fliers (the ones who'd managed to survive). Show us how it's done? They also got their asses handed to them, and those who survived passed on the invitation to an after-action party given by their allies, the Egypt pilots. I don't have an argument against Pollack's apparent general thesis, but wonder if he took motivation into account.

40 posted on 07/17/2019 10:12:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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