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To: Cronos
German made tanks were works of art -

Except for the part where they leaked fuel inside the tank, were mechanically unreliable, and difficult to work on. But in the field, we lost 3 Shermans to every kraut tank. So there was that in their favor.

That aside, concerning Stalin's apology, etc. If that lunatic had not signed the non aggression pact with that other lunatic in the first place, this whole discussion maybe would not have taken place.

13 posted on 06/28/2019 5:22:11 AM PDT by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul
If that lunatic had not signed the non aggression pact with that other lunatic in the first place, this whole discussion maybe would not have taken place.
The reality, which Churchill threw in Stalin’s face when Stalin complained that Britain wasn’t actively fighting the Germans on the ground and the USSR was taking all the casualties, was that in the Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe flew over Britain on Soviet gasoline.

In that sense Barbarosa was an opportunity for Britain, in that while the Soviets and Germans were at war, the USSR wasn’t selling Hitler gasoline. The real pity of WWII, geopolitically, was that FDR was too much of a socialist himself to be enthusiastic about driving a hard bargain with Stalin. What was Stalin gonna do, sue for peace with Germany after what the Germans had done to Russians? Mein Kampf told the tale of what Stalin couldn’t do.

And yet the USSR comes out of WWII strong enough, and hostile enough, to cause all the grief of the Cold War???? A real American would have insisted on a really friendly Russia. And how Stalin did that and still stayed in power was his problem.


23 posted on 06/28/2019 7:47:41 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (Socialism is cynicism directed towards society and - correspondingly - naivete towards government.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...
...concerning Stalin's apology, etc. If that lunatic had not signed the non aggression pact with that other lunatic in the first place, this whole discussion maybe would not have taken place.
Well said, LouAvul. I can't find the quote I wanted, it was Churchill's own joke about one the British tank designs, ah well. Seems like a great pretext to use this one instead:
“Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves, that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, ‘This was their finest hour.’”

24 posted on 06/29/2019 12:43:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: LouAvul; SunkenCiv
The treaty made a lot of sense from lunatic Stalin's perspective. All the French and British could offer was immediate war with Germany over their Polish guarantee. Both the Germans and Russians knew they were going to fight each other as both considered dominance over Poland to be in their essential interests. But the Red Army was in no condition to take on the Germans in 1939. Stalin's purges had devastated the officer corps and a new senior officer corps had to be trained. The Army was expanding rapidly but was still woefully short on equipment.

So, Stalin needed time to build his army. Hitler needed time to settle matters with Western Europe. The Pact was bare knuckle realpolitik between two completely amoral dictators.

At the end of the day, Stalin's army was not finished when the Germans attacked, but had built up enough to stop them in front of Moscow and Leningrad - barely.

38 posted on 06/29/2019 4:55:34 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: LouAvul
That aside, concerning Stalin's apology, etc. If that lunatic had not signed the non aggression pact with that other lunatic in the first place, this whole discussion maybe would not have taken place.

It did not help matters that Stalin invaded Finland in 1939 with a million and a half men, and four months later, the half-million survivors went home licking their wounds.

Hitler saw what Finland's puny Army and reservists had done to Stalin's Red Army and considered what his own blooded professionals could do. He miscalculated; The Soviets had learned to use the Winter weather from the Finns.

56 posted on 07/12/2019 1:36:47 PM PDT by archy (Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears, they'll kill you a little, then eat you.)
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