On this date in 1864

[Bull Snipe]

Union General George Meade launches 3 corps of his Army of the Potomac against the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia’s works near Cold Harbor. Meade’s assault is a failure. Over 7000 Union casualties and not one foot of ground gained. Lieutenant General Grant, in ordering Meade to make the attack, called it the worst mistake he ever made.

[DoodleDawg]

Because he really didn't want to win.

Of course he didn't.

[DoodleDawg]

Don't be dense. They had superior forces till we sunk so many of their capitol ships. Yes, later in the war we had superior forces, and that's because our great Admiralty overcame their forces.

So when did it change over to us having superior forces after sinking all those capitol(sic) ships?

The commanding officer of the opposing forces had a note in his pocket telling him of the plan.

Ah so then since we broke the Japanese code and had a note with the Japanese plans in our pocket, so to speak, then Midway was entirely due to luck?

I think his opponents did not have their heart in what they were doing. They knew they were in the wrong, and could not really muster up the will needed to kill so many people who were only defending their homeland.

So you keep saying. No need for evidence, just your native brilliance and deduction of their intent.

[DoodleDawg]

There a tactics involving deception and psy-ops that Lee used and developed.

Care to elaborate?

[DiogenesLamp]

Why do you need to point me to an "expert"? It's like you don't grasp the concept of me not being interested in an opinion.

Show me some evidence. You know, like export numbers for goods shipped to Europe versus imports shipped back in payment, and who was making all the money.

Grant sneaking his ships through in the dark and during a storm? Was that "genius" level thinking? And how easily could a fleeing ship have been hit by cannon fire from the bluff anyways?

Can they track that ship's movement like a guy with a shotgun? I don't think so!

Also, "group think" is not a "conspiracy."

People subconsciously doing something because they all share the same biases is very different from people consciously colluding because they share the same goal.

The vast majority of "scholars" will seek to justify what the Union did, because this is where their inherent biases lie.

[DiogenesLamp]

Ah so then since we broke the Japanese code and had a note with the Japanese plans in our pocket, so to speak, then Midway was entirely due to luck?

Not entirely, but due to a large extent. Look up that "lost squadron." Were it not for that bit of luck, things would have turned out quite differently.

Unfortunate for the Squadron, but of immense value to our side that things just worked out as they did.

[DoodleDawg]

Why do you need to point me to an "expert"? It's like you don't grasp the concept of me not being interested in an opinion.

Unless it's in the form of a newspaper editorial that supports your position, things like that. Historians and biographers that write serious works on periods of history or individuals are of no interest to you if you disagree with them. No matter what evidence they have to back their works up with.

[DoodleDawg]

Unfortunate for the Squadron, but of immense value to our side that things just worked out as they did.

Your opinion is duly noted.

[DiogenesLamp]

Historians and biographers that write serious works on periods of history or individuals are of no interest to you if you disagree with them.

Lot of serious "legal" people lying their @$$ off about Russian collusion.

Lots of serious "scientists" lying their @$$ off about "Global Warming."

Lots of serious "Doctors" lying their @$$ off about gender and when life begins.

Lots of serious "journalists" lying their @$$ off about the news.

Have you ever heard the concept "statement against interest"?

Get some of these "scholars" defying the conventional wisdom, and i'll take them more seriously. So long as they are going with the flow, i'll just assume they are part of the "group think" school of thought.

[DiogenesLamp]

You can believe what you want, but “luck” played an immense role in turning the war to our advantage.

[DoodleDawg]

The vast majority of "scholars" will seek to justify what the Union did, because this is where their inherent biases lie.

And you will condemn everything the Union did because that's where your inherent biases lie. Got it.

[DoodleDawg]

You can believe what you want, but “luck” played an immense role in turning the war to our advantage.

I could point you to a book titled "Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway" by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully but it would be a waste of time. Since their findings differ from yours then you would only dismiss them as biased and their findings as nothing but opinion.

[DiogenesLamp]

I think if you condemn the first thing, which was to launch a war against people who just wanted to be left alone, all other wrongs follow from that.

Initiating a war in a bad cause taints all actions in support of that war.

[excalibur21]

I know but I guess I’m just tired of repeating things.

[DoodleDawg]

Get some of these "scholars" defying the conventional wisdom, and i'll take them more seriously. So long as they are going with the flow, i'll just assume they are part of the "group think" school of thought.

LOL! You are quite a piece of work. That's why dealing with you is so amusing.

[DoodleDawg]

I think if you condemn the first thing, which was to launch a war against people who just wanted to be left alone, all other wrongs follow from that.

Then it begs the question, why did Davis do it?

[central_va]

I don’t know which battle but Lee marched the same regiment in front of the enemy along a small portion of road exposed to the enemy over and over in a loop. They were carrying different regimental flags so it looked like he was reinforcing his left flank. In fact he attacked on the other flank.

[HandyDandy]

“It was the third of June, another hot and dusty, delta daaaaaayyy”

[DoodleDawg]

I don’t know which battle but Lee marched the same regiment in front of the enemy along a small portion of road exposed to the enemy over and over in a loop

That wasn't Lee. That was John B. Magruder against McClellan at Yorktown on the Peninsula. Lee would not take over the Confederate Army until some weeks later when Johnston was wounded at Seven Pines.

[Reily]

Are you talking about Magruder’s deception tactics on the Peninsula Campaign? Where he constantly marched his forces back and forth, used sporadic artillery barrages. Created the illusion of a much larger military presence and persuaded McClellan to call for a siege of Yorktown rather then to continue to advance toward Richmond. McClellan stopped advancing and took time to pull up heavy guns. Magruder’s Army of the Peninsula only consisted of about 13,600 men while McClellan’s was about 121,500.

[central_va]

I think you are right about that, I couldn't remember. But Lee was so good at making the enemy think his army was bigger than it really was worked magnificantly. I think McClellan claimed to be out numbered in every battle with Lee, even after the war!

---

General Lee also used a brilliant piece of false movement and misinformation to gain a strategic advantage during Union General George B. McClellan's Peninsula Campaign, 1862. Lee deceived the Union leadership into believing there was a threat against Washington D.C. by allowing Federal prisoners, due for parole, to see the westward movement of Confederate forces. The Union troops could count the regiments and learn of their destinations. Lee knew the information would be relayed to Federal commanders. He counted on their concern for protecting the Capital to override the support of McClellan's campaign.