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To: vannrox

By any objective standard George Armstrong Custer was one of the worst men ever to be commissioned an officer in the US Army. Reckless, frequently insubordinate, he cared little if anything for the welfare of his men and he was a serial adulterer to his long suffering wife Libby.


6 posted on 01/21/2019 1:55:49 AM PST by jmacusa (Made it Ma, top of the world!'')
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To: jmacusa

“By any objective standard George Armstrong Custer was one of the worst men ever to be commissioned an officer in the US Army”

But I will give him credit for Gettysburg, where his recklessness may have prevented the Southern Cavalry from getting behind the Union army, and cooperating with Picket’s Charge to split the Union army in half.


12 posted on 01/21/2019 4:05:41 AM PST by CondorFlight
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To: jmacusa; pacific_waters; centurion316; chaosagent

“By any objective standard George Armstrong Custer was one of the worst men ever to be commissioned an officer in the US Army...” [jmacusa, post 6]

“... Most West Point graduates and Regular Army officers had similar stories...served with the Volunteers ...back to their Regular Army rank when the war was over.
Brevet rank was usually awarded for performance in combat, recipients were entitled to the title, by courtesy, and could wear their Brevet uniform. This reads like most pirate stories, short on facts.” [centurion316, post 42]

“I’d take their “facts” with a grain of salt. “After the war, the rank reverted to Captain and remained so for the rest of his career.” He was promoted to Lt Colonel when he assumed command of the 7th...” [pacific_waters, post 6]

“One interesting thing I heard ...was that Custer had two horse-drawn Gatling Guns available to him, but left them at the fort because he thought they’d slow him down...” [chaosagent, post 30]


A special thanks to pacific_waters, centurion316, ndchaosagent for setting jmacusa straight.

jmacusa is assuredly entitled to an opinion, but might read up on West Point history, the American Civil War, and US military personnel practices before venturing additional ones.

_The Class of 1846_ by John C Waugh (Ballantine, 1999. ISBN-10: 034543403X; ISBN-13: 978-0345434036)

_Sacred Ties_ by Tom Carhart (Dutton, 2011. ISBN-10: 0425239101; ISBN-13: 978-0425239100)

_Exploring With Custer_ by Ernest Grafe & Paul Horsted. (Golden Vally Press, 2002 {Third Edition}. ISBN-10: 0971805318; ISBN-13: 978-0971805316)

_The Class of 1846_ informs us about USMA’s class of 1846 and how its members fared, as cadets and later as officers. Plenty of detail on early West Point. Prior to the 1840s, USMA was an engineering school. Performance of grads in the Mexican-American War set the public on the path that would help them judge differently.

_Sacred Ties_ follows the lives of six West Pointers (George Armstrong Custer, Stephen Dodson Ramseur, Henry Algernon du Pont, John Pelham, Thomas Rosser, and Wesley Merritt) who were still cadets as the American Civil War began: they had forged a special personal bond since entering. In asserting that Custer was “Reckless, frequently insubordinate, he cared little if anything for the welfare of his men...” jmacusa is not only factually inaccurate but intellectually dishonest and largely uninformed.

Before ACW, West Point had not yet become the school of secret hazing rituals, petty humiliation as embodied in the class system, or scores of dutiful cadets being dictated to and punished by martinet tac officers. The Honor Code did not yet exist. America of the early 19th century had no urban sheep; a certain frontier rambunctiousness and a small-r republican egalitarianism still existed. Cadets did not kowtow to officers as they did later, still less would they defer to civilian instructors (of which there were some then). By these less-stringent standards, Custer wasn’t a standout; “reckless” is arguable but more subjective. Such is sometimes needed in action; timidity and deference can get you killed.

One epithet jmacusa somehow failed to include was the accusation that Custer graduated without completing the prescribed academic program. It is true in a sense: when Custer & classmates entered, the program was four years in length, but political developments in Europe (widespread revolts in 1848) caused authorities to increase the program to five years, incorporating more instruction in foreign languages, geography, politics, and international affairs. On the outbreak of civil war in April 1861, demand for qualified officers led to the immediate graduation and commissioning of the First Class, followed by graduation and commissioning of the Second Class in early July, skipping the extra academics. Custer graduated with that second Class of 1861.

US military personnel policies have long been complicated and bedeviled by indifference during peace, followed by panicked buildups at the outset of war, to be followed by ruinous steep, sudden reductions after war. The civilian administrators were never shy about appointing officers to whatever rank they thought was need: hence the direct entry of many as colonels or higher.

The use of temporary rank was continued until personnel policies were subject to somewhat rational reform in the 1980s. George Custer and a couple others were hurriedly promoted to high rank during severe shortages early in ACW - a frankly political move was taken in desperation, but the blind stab turned out decently in Custer’s case. The others worked out OK too.

By the late 1860s the armed forces had been severely reduced in size and many reduced to permanent rank. This did embitter many who had been junior or mid-rank officers during the war, as they were reduced to enlisted status if they chose to remain in uniform. Custer had been popular during the war with his volunteers (many of whom had also hailed from Michigan), but he did become indifferent to the motley group of underlings he commanded from 1865 until his demise in 1876. The distinction between officer and enlisted was much wider back then; one gets the impression from diaries and journals of those he commanded that the officers enjoyed themselves, while the enlisted soldiers suffered and groused (cautiously and quietly).

In summer 1876, the 7th Cavalry did not leave the Gatling Guns at Fort Abraham Lincoln. As big and as weighty as field pieces, they trundled right along on their wheeled carriages with the rest of the supply wagons and the baggage train. On the morning of 25 June 1876, the 7th got word of the Indian camps along the Little Big Horn; Custer ordered the regiment to head directly at the Indians - across very rough territory. The Gatlings, and the rest of the wheeled vehicles assigned, were left behind because they could never have made it across what is essentially a small stretch of badlands terrain. Custer did not leave his supporting arms behind for whimsical reasons.

_Exploring With Custer_ is sort of a travel book. detailing the US military expedition to and through the Black Hills, July-August 1874, which Custer commanded. This expedition was one of the first to be accompanied by a photographer, who took dozens of pictures and later published many, which sold well and increased popular interest in a then-remote region. By the final years of the 20th century, fading local legend, changes in vegetation, and alterations of the terrain through mining had caused confusion about where the original picture-snapping locations had been, so Ernie Grafe and Paul Horsted resolved to document as many as they could, before knowledge vanished completely. They snapped photos of their own, included detailed maps and GPS data, and added day-by-day commentary in the words of the original expedition members excerpted from the diaries & journals many had kept. The book contains a long series of before-and-after images and is a great travel book for the historically inclined, plus a fascinating read for those curious about the real “Old West.”


56 posted on 01/21/2019 1:41:34 PM PST by schurmann
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To: jmacusa

According to what I just watched “The American West” he foolishly would not wait for the other two armies, and wanted the glory for himself.


60 posted on 01/21/2019 3:16:30 PM PST by Sam Gamgee
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To: jmacusa

Utter Rubbish. Custers promotions.

Custer was a fearless fighter who always led his men. He was always in the thick of the fighting. Custer’s excellent fighting and leadership abilities were one of the reasons the Union won the Civil War.

“Custer’s promotions and ranks including his six brevet [temporary] promotions which were all for gallant and meritorious services at five different battles and one campaign:[41]

Second Lieutenant, 2nd Cavalry: June 24, 1861

First Lieutenant, 5th Cavalry: July 17, 1862

Captain Staff, Additional Aide-De-Camp: June 5, 1862

Brigadier General, U.S. Volunteers: June 29, 1863

Brevet Major, July 3, 1863 (Battle of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania)

Captain, 5th Cavalry: May 8, 1864

Brevet Lieutenant Colonel: May 11, 1864 (Battle of Yellow Tavern - Combat at Meadow)

Brevet Colonel: September 19, 1864 (Battle of Winchester, Virginia)

Brevet Major General, U.S. Volunteers: October 19, 1864 (Battle of Winchester and Fisher’s Hill, Virginia)

Brevet Brigadier General, U.S. Army, March 13, 1865 (Battle of Five Forks, Virginia)

Brevet Major General, U.S. Army: March 13, 1865 (The campaign ending in the surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia)”

Major General, U.S. Volunteers: April 15, 1865

Mustered out of Volunteer Service: February 1, 1866

Lieutenant Colonel, 7th Cavalry: July 28, 1866 (killed at the Battle of the Little Bighorn, June 25, 1876)


72 posted on 01/22/2019 12:56:37 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad ("the media are selling you a line of soap)
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