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To: BeauBo

That’s a lot of info

I was questioning the logistics since long distance sailing is something I know a bit about

I had no clue how slave galleys go speed wise

They were shallow draft cumbersome things.....the rams were very light for speed with sharp tip so they say

I think I read about 10 knots with Is max for short distance in decent seas with right winds and more like 4-5 normal which is still kicking.....

Did the Israelites have slave galleys?

Ancient times seafaring was more risky and slower than today


40 posted on 10/21/2018 11:54:49 AM PDT by wardaddy (I donÂ’t care that youÂ’re not a racist......when the shooting starts it wonÂ’t matter what you were)
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To: wardaddy

Oar-driven ships could be propelled by slaves or free sailors - it varied quite a bit from time to time, and one culture to another.

The ships themselves varied quite a bit also, from sleek warships to more tub-like or barge-like cargo ships. Most of the larger ships would have sails as well.

Greek triremes, like those of the Athenian fleet, were the racehorses of ancient maritime vessels. They were crewed by free men - well trained sailors who were like rowing athletes. Design features were considered State secrets, and it was a death penalty to reveal them. Athens specialized in nautical expertise, like Sparta specialized in land combat. Every earlier ship design would be slower.

I think that your estimate of 4-5 knots under oar, in good conditions, is a good estimate for typical high end (like Navy) vessels over the preceding thousand years.

“Did the Israelites have slave galleys?”

Ancient coastal cities in Lebanon like Byblos (modern day Jibayl), which has been continuously occupied for 7,000 years; and Tyre, just 15 miles from the current Israeli border; were the very heartland of Phoenician civilization - the greatest shipbuilders of late Bronze Age.

So the ancient Israelis would have easy access to the technology, but I have no idea if they made much use of them or not. The Phoenicians kind of ruled the seas. 1,200 to 800 BC were the high point of Phoenician power and influence, conventionally associated with the reigns of King David and King Solomon (his son). The Phoenician heartland was finally conquered by Cyrus the Great of Persia in 539 B.C., who also conquered Babylon, releasing the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity, and funded the reconstruction of the temple in Jerusalem.

About 80 years after the Persian Empire reached the Mediterranean, the Athenian Greeks defeated Xerxes, the grandson of Cyrus the Great, at the epic naval battle of Salamis (480 BC - the same major conflict that made famous the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae), establishing Greek Naval dominance in the region for centuries to come. The Greeks had been a naval power since the decline of Phoenicia, but were the naval super-power after Salamis.

The last major City-State of the Phoenician culture, Carthage, was finally conquered by Rome in 146 BC.

Ancient Israel almost certainly would have been well served by Phoenician trade vessels. The Port of Haifa itself was part of Phoenicia.

So maritime trade in the Mediterranean was dominated first by the Phoenicians, then by the Greeks, and then by the Romans. Israel was never a Naval power. The Romans effectively crushed Israel as an independent kingdom around 70 AD, destroying the Temple in Jerusalem, and forcibly dispersing chunks of the population around their empire, as far away as Spain.


41 posted on 10/21/2018 1:07:33 PM PDT by BeauBo
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To: wardaddy

“I was questioning the logistics since long distance sailing is something I know a bit about”

A logistical consideration is that most of the Red Sea maritime trade could stay in sight of the coast, and pull in to shore anytime for shelter, rest or replenishment. A worst case straight shot across the widest point is 220 miles. In the Northern or Southern extremes, it is more like 10-20 miles across.


42 posted on 10/21/2018 1:21:50 PM PDT by BeauBo
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To: wardaddy; BeauBo
The Periplus of Hanno -- voyage of exploration and colonization along western Africa -- recorded in ancient Carthage describes Mount Cameroon in eruption, and was displayed alongside a gorilla skin. The ancient maritime peoples were maritime peoples precisely because they were good at what they did.

45 posted on 10/21/2018 7:54:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (and btw -- https://www.gofundme.com/for-rotator-cuff-repair-surgery)
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