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To: Electric Graffiti
You are claiming that anyone not born to two US citizens on US soil is somehow a “naturalized” citizen? This claim is patently absurd. If the parents are both US citizens, the soil dosent make a difference.

My two youngest children (twins) were born last July on the territory of the Russian Federation. My wife and I are both US citizens. They were, at the moment of their birth, US citizens (natural, non-naturalized), the fact of which was certified by a consular officer in the US Embassy, Moscow. They were each immediately issued a “Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America” (CRBA), and a US Passport. At no time was a request for naturalization ever requested or considered.

18 posted on 08/19/2018 11:56:19 PM PDT by billakay
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To: billakay

Well, I guess they can run for President someday then...


19 posted on 08/20/2018 12:08:54 AM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Jeff Sessions IS the insurance policy)
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To: billakay; Hugin

I think this sums it up pretty nicely:

The meaning of the term-of-art ‘natural born citizen’ has been addressed, and confirmed by the US Supreme Court. The idea that all persons who are a citizen at birth, are ‘natural born citizens’ can not possibly be accepted for the simple reason that NO part of the Constitution can be interpreted in such a way as to make any part of the Constitution irrelevant. What that means is that the Constitution MUST be interpreted in such a way that every word is relevant. The idea that ‘citizen at birth’ equates to ‘natural born citizen’ ignores the word ‘natural’. If the intention was otherwise, they would have simply said a ‘born citizen’, or a ‘citizen at birth’ or ‘born a citizen’. So it is clear they intended something else.

So - what does the word ‘natural’ mean in the context of ‘natural born citizen’? There are two types of law. There is ‘positive law’ - this is man-made law, such as the Constitution, laws from Congress, state law, local ordinances, and so on. And then there is ‘natural law’ - this is the law of nature, or the divine. An example would be when the founders wrote the Declaration of Independence, and stated - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”. That is a form of natural law. So, the term ‘natural born citizen’ means EXACTLY what it says, a citizen at birth according to natural law.

OK - what is a citizen by natural law? Remember, a natural law is one that is unwritten. So a citizen by natural law, would be a citizen that would require no man made ‘positive’ law to be a citizen. So, when is someone a citizen without need of any positive law? When they can be nothing else. Does that sound familiar? Ever heard someone answer a question with the word ‘naturally’, because the answer could be nothing else? “Does Monday come after Sunday? Naturally!”. Who can be nothing other than a citizen at birth, and therefore requires no positive law?

There are 4 basic variables governing citizenship. 1) born in or out of a country. 2) Both parents are citizens. 3) One parent is a citizen. 4) Neither parent is a citizen. The first (where born) is combined with the other 3 to determine whether or not a child is a citizen at birth. There are laws written to govern every situation - except one. The only situation not covered by positive law is when a child is born in a country, and both parents are citizens of that country. Why? Because no law is required, the child is a citizen ‘naturally’. Both sides want to ignore this FACT. Maybe where a person is born shouldn’t really matter. I’ve seen many immigrants who are much more patriotic than natural born Americans. But there is a process to go thru if that is the case, and that process is the Amendment process. But that probably wouldn’t go through. So what do they do? They simply ignore that part of the Constitution. The real danger is what part do the decide to ignore next?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2999448/posts?page=7#7


21 posted on 08/20/2018 12:25:45 AM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Jeff Sessions IS the insurance policy)
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bump


27 posted on 08/20/2018 12:57:03 AM PDT by Bob434
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To: billakay
-- At no time was a request for naturalization ever requested or considered. --

Rogers v. Bellei and a host of other legal precedents run contrary to your conclusion.

Why did you go to the consular officer in the US Embassy, Moscow? Natrual born citizenship has no need for resort to any consular's office.

Now, I don't expect the courts to apply the law or constitution, but the precedents do say what they say.

42 posted on 08/20/2018 4:06:25 AM PDT by Cboldt
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