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Poles apart: the bitter conflict over a nation’s communist history
The Guardian ^ | Jul 2018 | Matthew Luxmore

Posted on 07/19/2018 7:20:56 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege

In April 2007, the former Soviet republic of Estonia decided to relocate a monument of gratitude out of the centre of its capital city, Tallinn. The bronze statue depicts a pensive soldier with his head bowed, one hand holding a helmet and the other curled into a fist.

For Estonia’s Russian minority, it was a symbol of the country’s liberation from fascism by the Red Army. For Estonians, it was a reminder of the country’s occupation by the Soviet Union.

On 26 April, as authorities cordoned off the monument in preparation for its removal, hundreds of ethnic Russians descended on the area...Over the next three days, riots swept across Estonia in the worst case of unrest the tiny Baltic state had seen since the second world war. One man died from stab wounds and 100 others were injured. A massive wave of cyber-attacks coincided with the riots, crippling government institutions.

There is unlikely to be a repeat of such violence in Poland. The country’s small Russian community can still pay homage to its own heroes undisturbed. On 9 May, its members gathered at the Soviet military cemetery in Warsaw, where an estimated 22,000 Red Army soldiers lie buried...Sergei Andreev, Russia’s ambassador to Poland, looked on.

Andreev was defiant. “Poland and the Polish nation exist today on this land thanks to the Red Army’s victory in that war, at the cost of the lives of those 600,000 soldiers and officers who died here,” ...“Those monuments are to them.” On the wall of his office hung photos of a grandfather who died in the war and two grandparents who survived it. “This is a foreign country, and we cannot lay down the law here. But one thing is clear,” he said. “We will not forget this, and we will not forgive.”

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: estonia; latvia; lithuania; poland; putinsbuttboys; russia; russianpigs; sergeiandreev; tookpolishland; wwii
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1 posted on 07/19/2018 7:20:56 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

I’m not sure about the Estonians but I know there were Lithuanians who preferred Nazi occupation over Soviet occupation.


2 posted on 07/19/2018 7:52:54 PM PDT by BBell (Antifa are like house cats. One squirt from a squirt bottle and they scatter.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
And it has mounted a campaign to erase the communist legacy entirely, ridding Poland’s streets of the names of former communists, and its squares and roundabouts of the hundreds of “monuments of gratitude” put up for the 600,000 Soviet soldiers estimated to have died fighting the Nazis on Polish territory.

others, like Borodacz, want all traces of that period destroyed.

He's not much different from the history revisionist who want to erase the legacy of the confederacy in this country.

3 posted on 07/19/2018 8:00:01 PM PDT by BBell (Antifa are like house cats. One squirt from a squirt bottle and they scatter.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Estonia is on the Russian border.

Their city Narva is right on the border and has 94% Russian speaking population.


4 posted on 07/19/2018 8:00:49 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
The country’s small Russian community can still pay homage to its own heroes undisturbed. On 9 May, its members gathered at the Soviet military cemetery in Warsaw, where an estimated 22,000 Red Army soldiers lie buried...Sergei Andreev, Russia’s ambassador to Poland, looked on. Andreev was defiant. “Poland and the Polish nation exist today on this land thanks to the Red Army’s victory in that war, at the cost of the lives of those 600,000 soldiers and officers who died here,” ..

Whoooo boy, where to begin....

First of all Mr. Andreev....YOU STARTED THE WAR, by agreeing to carve up Poland with Hitler. No Non-Agression Pact, Hitler doesn't invade Poland. You knew signing that Pact meant that you and Germany would carve up Poland.

Shall we also talk about Katyń, and killing off Polish officers, who just might have been put to use to liberate their country, thus sparing the lives of more of your Red Army Comrades. But let's not kid ourselves, Stalin wasn't concerned at all about the losing lives of his own soldiers, all that mattered was dominance of Poland.

Then of course, your Red Army troops urging the AK to rise up in Warsaw, only to watch them get butchered, while your Precious Red Army sat and did nothing on the other side of the Vistula.

5 posted on 07/19/2018 8:07:13 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: BBell
All three Baltic countries were independent nations after World War I until the Soviets occupied them in 1940. The Germans drove the Soviets out in 1941 and later the Soviets drove the Germans out. I can see why Estonians might not see the Red Army as liberators, whatever they thought of the Germans.

The Red Army was a short distance from Warsaw when the Poles rose up against the Germans in 1944. The Red Army sat there and did nothing to help--Stalin wanted as much of the Polish anti-Communist leadership destroyed as possible. I think there was a period of several months in 1944-45 where the Soviets did not advance against the Germans on that front at all (although they were active in the Balkans during that time).

6 posted on 07/19/2018 8:11:26 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: dfwgator
“Poland and the Polish nation exist today on this land thanks to the Red Army’s victory in that war, at the cost of the lives of those 600,000 soldiers and officers who died here,” ..

Ah yes, the same Red Army that tried to wipe out Poland in 1920 and annex it to the Soviet Union.

7 posted on 07/19/2018 8:13:23 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Verginius Rufus

This thread is getting my blood pressure up.


8 posted on 07/19/2018 8:14:21 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

No mention of the large section of Poland annexed by the Soviet Union and retained by Russia.


9 posted on 07/19/2018 8:25:40 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Gone but not forgiven.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Couldn’t stand to read the entire article of Guardian propaganda.

The Poles can and should do away with EVERY monument to its occupier.

The Russians carved up Poland like a turkey with the blessing of Hitler. To pretend to be a liberator is absurd.


10 posted on 07/19/2018 8:26:20 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (All Democrats have to offer is violence, intolerance, divisiveness and hatred.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Poland merely exchanged one set of chains for another.


11 posted on 07/19/2018 8:27:31 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
In April 2007, the former Soviet republic of Estonia decided to relocate a monument of gratitude out of the centre of its capital city, Tallinn. The bronze statue depicts a pensive soldier with his head bowed, one hand holding a helmet and the other curled into a fist. For Estonia’s Russian minority, it was a symbol of the country’s liberation from fascism by the Red Army. For Estonians, it was a reminder of the country’s occupation by the Soviet Union.

Oh, and if I recall correctly, the only reason this "Russian minority" is in the Baltics is because STALIN SHIPPED THEM IN AFTER OCCUPYING THE BALTICS!!

12 posted on 07/19/2018 8:29:02 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (All Democrats have to offer is violence, intolerance, divisiveness and hatred.)
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To: Verginius Rufus
All three Baltic countries were independent nations after World War I until the Soviets occupied them in 1940. The Germans drove the Soviets out in 1941 and later the Soviets drove the Germans out.

Facts. The Soviets were the initial aggressors.

13 posted on 07/19/2018 8:38:59 PM PDT by matt1234 (Jan. 20, 2017: the national nightmare ended.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Yes, Stalin wanted to Russianize the entire Soviet Union, basically to Stalin, although ethnically Georgian, Russians were the “Master Race”, he had entire ethnic communities uprooted in order to move in ethnic Russians.


14 posted on 07/19/2018 8:40:53 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Stalin just wanted to finish what he started with The Katyn massacre. I watched a documentary about the Soviet resistance in Lithuania after WWII. The Lithuanians were hoping for an allied liberation, excluding Soviets, during WWII and after the war they mistakingly thought that we and the rest of the euroweenies would support them first in their bid for Independence and then in their fight against the occupying Soviet troops. Of course we did not intervene. Would not want to upset the balance of power now would we.


15 posted on 07/19/2018 8:50:42 PM PDT by BBell (Antifa are like house cats. One squirt from a squirt bottle and they scatter.)
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To: BBell
Stalin just wanted to finish what he started with The Katyn massacre

Actually it started in 1920.

16 posted on 07/19/2018 8:53:59 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: BBell

There’s about 206,000 Lithuanians who did not prefer Nazis.
But they are don’t get to talk much.


17 posted on 07/19/2018 8:56:53 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: BBell

And in the Baltic republics, resistance fighters were fighting the Red Army in raid until the mid-1950s.


18 posted on 07/19/2018 9:04:14 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: DesertRhino

There was also a Polish Underground that fought against Soviet occupation.


19 posted on 07/19/2018 9:05:04 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: dfwgator

Yea but he had all the best corralled in one spot in Katyn. And no witnesses, that would talk anyway.


20 posted on 07/19/2018 9:07:11 PM PDT by BBell (Antifa are like house cats. One squirt from a squirt bottle and they scatter.)
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