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To: DesertRhino
The existence of a monarchy is not, in itself, a just cause for war. The Israelite monarchy under Saul is an example: even David, driven to armed resistance by Saul's murderous attacks on him, would not raise his weapon against the anointed King.

Note Romans 13, too, where Paul is requiring obedience to kings:

"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities.
For there is no authority except from God,
and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Therefore whoever resists the authority
resists the ordinance of God,
and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. ... For he is God’s minister to you for good
[and] he does not bear the sword in vain."

Paul here is speaking of "authorities" -- Roman governors and Roman emperors--- who were not anointed by the Prophets of Israel, but quite the contrary, saw their authority as established by pagan gods, and who were at that very hour oppressing the Church.

I don't think this functions as an absolute principle of "divine right of kings," but it does establish a strong prior presumption against rebellion, modified only by extreme circumstances, e.g. as a last resort because of the duty to protect yourself and your neighbors from massacre.

Even if that situation obtains, a war that has a just cause (jus ad bellum) has to be carried out in a just manner (jus in bello) --- not, for instance by carrying our massacres in return.

The American War of Independence is a fairly good example of a revolution carried out without indiscriminate killing. After the Revolution ended in 1783, those who had been loyal to the British Crown were not rounded up and fined, deprived of their property, imprisoned or executed.

For that reason, the American War for Independence was very unlike the French Revolution. The latter was far more similar to the 20th century Communist revolutions.

36 posted on 07/13/2018 11:46:01 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and Judgment are the foundation of His throne.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

” that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of god.””
Thomas Jefferson.

I stand with him. Paul was wrong. He wasn’t infallible. That wasn’t the word of Jesus. If a man stands in front of you and says he lords over you, that is prima fascia cause to demand he stand down from that, or face war.
Following that Paul quote would mean nobody should assassinate Hitler or Stalin. After all;

“and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Therefore whoever resists the authority
resists the ordinance of God, “

I suspect you would say that Hitler was a usurper and not existing under the appointment of God. And that killing him and every nazi you can find is fine. I simply argue the same about monarchs. They are usurpers. And we need to face it, Paul was speaking in his own time and place. He was a Roman citizen, and wanted to make sure he was not accused of sedition. Probably as simple as that.


37 posted on 07/13/2018 12:05:49 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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