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To: BBell
Very intersting. I wasn't aware of this battle.

My father being from Massachusetts, I remember the incident where 2 or 3 German spies or saboteurs sneaked ashore in New England, deploying from a mini-sub or some such, with the goal of sabotaging infrastructure and/or gathering intelligence. If I recall correctly, they were all apprehended or killed rather quickly.

Many Americans don't realize that there were also some German-American citizens who were put into internment camps during WWII. Most believe that only the Japanese were the victims of such wrong-headed (IMHO, whether "Constitutional" or not) policies.

History has demonstrated that America had little or nothing to fear from its ethnic minority citizens who happened to match the ethnicity of the Enemy—certainly not anywhere near enough to justify mass interments. Wartime hysteria is a powerful—and often atrociously unjust—mob phenomenon.

I always chuckle at the "conservatives" who—then and now—enthusiastically supported FDR's patently un-American policy on mass internment of select ethnicities. As I mentioned, history has compellingly shown the notion to be abject hysteria...

7 posted on 05/28/2018 2:52:46 PM PDT by sargon ("If the President doesn't drain the Swamp, the Swamp will drain the President.")
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To: sargon

“History has demonstrated that America had little or nothing to fear from its ethnic minority citizens who happened to match the ethnicity of the Enemy—certainly not anywhere near enough to justify mass interments. Wartime hysteria is a powerful—and often atrociously unjust—mob phenomenon.”

I don’t totally disagree with your perspective. However . . .

In the heat of war, one set of people were sent to camps in the U.S. and required to stay inside the wire until the war was over. Following those orders was considered their duty.

Other groups of people were sent to camps overseas and required to get into ships, and tanks, and planes to be drowned or burned alive. Following those orders was considered their duty.

Which group of people do you think got the short end of the stick?


19 posted on 05/28/2018 3:19:27 PM PDT by jeffersondem
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To: sargon

It’s not as simple as you portray. There was a lot more going on than most know. This book is full of the background, including tons of original documents.

Magic: The Untold Story of U.S. Intelligence and the Evacuation of Japanese Residents from the West Coast During WWII
https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Intelligence-Evacuation-Japanese-Residents/dp/0960273611


22 posted on 05/28/2018 3:38:21 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: sargon

A lot of things can look “wrong-headed” after the fact...


27 posted on 05/28/2018 3:51:49 PM PDT by JBW1949 (I'm really PC....PATRIOTICALLY CORRECT!!!!)
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To: sargon

“History has demonstrated that America had little or nothing to fear from its ethnic minority citizens who happened to match the ethnicity of the Enemy—certainly not anywhere near enough to justify mass interments.”

The enemy in WWII was different - race/ethnicity was their over-riding ideology. The Nazi “Master Race” and eugenics are well know (and much more pronounced than most any other enemy ever), but the extreme Japanese racial ideology of that time is more overlooked.

In Shintoism, the Japanese Race is descended from the Sun Goddess Amaterasu (hence the sun symbol on the flag), and the Emperor was considered the embodiment of Amaterasu on Earth. The Imperial Japanese were explicit and emphatic in their messaging to Overseas Japanese to remain loyal to the divine Emperor unto death, as their inalienable inborn duty.

Much more of the Japanese-American population of that time were relatively recent immigrants, with a greater linguistic and cultural attachment back to Japan, than what we typically see today (even though large numbers were second or third generation Americans).

A clear distinction was made between such “off-the-boat” Japanese immigrants, born in Japan (Issei), and later generations, born in America - Nisei (2nd Gen), Sansei (3rd Gen). The Issei did include a number of Japanese Government agents, deliberately sent for spying, sabotage and agitation among the Japanese-American community. Although they never did achieve significant sabotage or fifth column effects, harsh policing tactics like internment may have contributed a lot toward that outcome - the Japanese Government did try.

Issei without citizenship were forcibly interred (as were thousands of Germans and Italians), their Nisei children went with them. Other Japanese Americans (Nisei, Sansei, etc. - along with some number of Germans and Italians) were forcibly displaced - excluded from areas of military concern, including many of the coastal cities and agricultural areas were they lived. This was especially the case in the West Coast, where there were more Japanese - did not effect the many Japanese in Hawaii.

Many Nisei (unlike Germans or Italians) who were not forcibly interred, were given free housing, food, education and medical care in the internment camps, and allowed to work off-base.

These non-forcibly interned people who had to leave their homes in short order, and spent the war in internment camps to be with their relatives and friends (and had few other options) are nearly universally regarded as forced internees today, and were later granted redress payments, the same as those legally forced into internment.

There was a higher concern about Japanese being attacked/lynched on the West Coast - they stuck out in a crowd, and Japanese military atrocities against Americans were much more common, and more atrocious, than at the hands of the Germans or Italians. There was more racial hatred on the street for the Japanese.

Americans in Japan at the start of the war, overwhelmingly died in Japanese detention - and military POW treatment and survival rates were dramatically worse under the Japanese (epic war crimes).


30 posted on 05/28/2018 4:01:21 PM PDT by BeauBo
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To: sargon

We don’t need that IHR BS here.

Not all Japanese residents were moved temporarily to the camps but only those who were higher risks (one example, with certain ties to the enemy overseas). They and their families were well cared for and comfortable. While training in schools, I’ve slept in some of the buildings used by them, which billets were far better than any of my training accommodations elsewhere.

We’ll do it again when necessary, too. Foreign identity enemies will not be allowed to attack us on our own soil. Americanize. Love it, or leave it. The anti-American revisionism will not prevail here.

As for Americans of German descent during the War, I’ve met many who were never in U.S. camps and none who were. Even the German prisoners of war were well treated in the U.S.A., allowed day release details, and many went on to become American land and business owners.

During World War 2, the Americans were the good ones—not the enemy. The very few remnants of the enemy are obviously trying to get somewhere with laughable feminist victimology, though.


45 posted on 05/28/2018 5:52:50 PM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: sargon
My father being from Massachusetts, I remember the incident where 2 or 3 German spies or saboteurs sneaked ashore in New England, deploying from a mini-sub or some such, with the goal of sabotaging infrastructure and/or gathering intelligence. If I recall correctly, they were all apprehended or killed rather quickly.

The "spy-ring" comprised three Germans and an American turncoat. They were discharged by U-Boot in Frenchman's Bay near Bar Harbor, Maine. They had $50,000 in genuine U.S. currency which represented a significant investment for the hard currency strapped Dritte Reich. They caught a bus on Route 1 for Boston, and hence to New York. (If anyone asked about their accents, they were instructed to say that they were Norwegian seamen.) The local sheriff's son noticed their tracks in the snow, and he and his father searched for them. They reported it to the FBI, who took the incident seriously.

In the event, the cunning spy-ring liked new clothes, good dining and Broadway shows a lot more than sabotage and spy-craft. The turncoat American got cold feet and called a high school friend who was working for the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover's G-men rolled up the invincible Nazi Supermen in no time. (The Brits would have turned them.)

The Germans were executed after a summary court-martial, having accomplished less than nothing, and the American, who turned them in, was imprisoned and repatriated to Germany after the War.

73 posted on 05/29/2018 4:15:58 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Psephomancers for Hillary!)
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