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Hitler's Monstrous 'Jagdtiger' Tank Destroyers Were a Colossal Failure
The National Interest ^ | 04/06/18 | Sebastien Roblin

Posted on 04/07/2018 9:25:29 AM PDT by Simon Green

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1 posted on 04/07/2018 9:25:29 AM PDT by Simon Green
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To: Simon Green
Otherwise the mountain mounting brackets would have been worn out too quickly and exact aiming would have been impossible. . . .

I am assuming that Carius wrote "Montagehalterungen" (but am unable to find "Tiger im Schlamm" in order to verify my supposition).

Regards,

2 posted on 04/07/2018 9:37:16 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Simon Green

German armor is consistently overrated. The Soviets had superior, and simpler concepts. American and British quality was superior. What made German panzers so lethal for so long was superior doctrine and superior personnel.


3 posted on 04/07/2018 9:38:21 AM PDT by Psalm 144 ("For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there." - LBJ)
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To: alexander_busek

Mounting brackets.


4 posted on 04/07/2018 9:48:27 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Psalm 144

There was no point in a Jagdtiger when they had Jagdpanther.
I think the 88mm PAK was good enough to kill anything that appeared during the war, including the Pershing and IS tanks.


5 posted on 04/07/2018 9:52:45 AM PDT by Little Ray (Freedom Before Security!)
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To: Psalm 144
German armor is consistently overrated.

Yep. They probably would have done best concentrating resources on Panzer Mk-IV production and improvements.

6 posted on 04/07/2018 9:53:49 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Little Ray
There was no point in a Jagdtiger when they had Jagdpanther. I think the 88mm PAK was good enough to kill anything that appeared during the war, including the Pershing and IS tanks.

Ther was no point in any of their heavy tanks including Panther which by allied standards was a heavy tank.

Yes the Tiger may have been invulnerable from the front but when you never have more than 30-40 operational Tigers along a +1,000 miles front, they become useless... even resource liabilities in the larger scheme of the conflict.

7 posted on 04/07/2018 10:00:05 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Simon Green
p07

Based on the Tiger II hull. Tankers much preferred the Tiger II and found it much more useful.

Germans didn't have nearly enough tanks and wasted too many hulls of good vehicles on assault guns.

8 posted on 04/07/2018 10:01:34 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Simon Green
Not when I used them on Panzer General! There they kicked butt!


9 posted on 04/07/2018 10:03:40 AM PDT by NohSpinZone (First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers)
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To: Snickering Hound

The also liked their railroad guns. There was an analysis on the resources that went into them, and what those resources could have been used for - aka X battalions of tanks that were much more usefully mobile for the type of war being waged.


10 posted on 04/07/2018 10:09:05 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: NohSpinZone

There is a clone of Panzer General on Ipad called Open Panzer.


11 posted on 04/07/2018 10:14:33 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Snickering Hound

Sweet, thank you for the tip. I’ll have to check it out.


12 posted on 04/07/2018 10:15:50 AM PDT by NohSpinZone (First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers)
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To: Calvin Locke
p07
13 posted on 04/07/2018 10:17:43 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Psalm 144
The problem with the Panzer tanks were they tried to match the Soviet T-34 with varying degrees of success. The T34--especially the T-34/85 that came into service later in World War II--was considered by many the best tank of that war in large-scale use.
14 posted on 04/07/2018 10:18:05 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's Economic Cure)
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To: Psalm 144

That’s what Allied tankers all thought.....NOT!

Germans lost a production battle. But tank to tank, the Tiger, Tiger 2, and Panther were more than match for any allied tank. Too complicated in design I’ll agree. Too call them overrated doesn’t square with performance tank to tank like at Kursk.


15 posted on 04/07/2018 10:18:26 AM PDT by LeonardFMason (426)
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To: Simon Green

Somewhat akin to the old Soviet Azeri 2S3 or newer MSTA-S.


16 posted on 04/07/2018 10:22:32 AM PDT by donozark (Restraining orders are just another way of saying I love you.)
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To: Simon Green

The Serman and Panzers started out with 75 mm cannons. The Germans fired a high-velocity shell because their barrels were longer.
Slower rounds from the Sherman bounced off the Panzers.
I believe the designers for the Sherman made the barrel shorter because the tank had to be shipped overseas and they didn’t want the barrel to stick out beyond the front of the vehicle. This made the gun useless and many Allied tankers died for the sake of convenience.


17 posted on 04/07/2018 10:32:57 AM PDT by alpo (Resist we did.)
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To: Snickering Hound
Germans didn't have nearly enough tanks and wasted too many hulls of good vehicles on assault guns.

Yes and no. By 1943, the Germans were on the run and out of the assault business. However, in a defensive role firing from ambush, the Stugs with their low profile and powerful gun gave a good accounting of themselves. Using imitation as the best form of flattery, the Stug concept can be considered successful in that the Soviets and Americans developed similar assault gun platforms. Below is the American WW-II developed T-28:


18 posted on 04/07/2018 10:33:27 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Simon Green

The “bigger is better” for German tanks was only useful on the eastern front where you had open fields to hit the enemy before they could return fire and you had room to navigate. When they tried using the larger tanks on the western front, they no longer had the advantage over the smaller more nimble allied tanks as they could no longer pick them off before they themselves were also in range of fire as well as not being able to maneuver away from the overwhelming numbers of lighter tanks that still had enough fire power to cripple or destroy them.

The Panther tank was almost the perfect tank for Germany, if they had only utilized a transmission design similar to the bolted on v-gear transmission like the Sherman tank. Panther’s could damage their straight gear transmission at higher speeds which required factory repair rather than field repair - keeping it off the battlefield.


19 posted on 04/07/2018 10:38:59 AM PDT by ThE_RiPpEr. (The Obamanation is over “Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last”)
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To: fso301

Dunno.
The Mark IV was getting a little long in the tooth and the Mark III was obsolete for anything but an assault gun chassis.
A simplified Panther and Jagdpanther might have been a good idea.
Problem was, the Panther the Germans built was larded up (which started out as a German T-34...) with gizmos inleaved road wheels and they couldn’t build them fast enough.
Tigers, though, were a waste of production lines and steel.


20 posted on 04/07/2018 10:43:36 AM PDT by Little Ray (Freedom Before Security!)
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