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On this date in 1857

Posted on 03/06/2018 9:17:29 AM PST by Bull Snipe

Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Roger Tanney issues the verdict in the case Scott V. Sanford, aka the "Dred Scott Decision" The court finds that Scott cannot sue in Fedreal court for his freedom because, as a slave, he is not a citizen of the United States and therefore lacks standing to sue. That addresses the specific issue before the Court. However Tanney goes further in his decision. -Not only is Scott not a U.S. Citizen, there is no Constitutionally legal path for Scott or any slave to become a U.S. Citizen. -The Federal Government has no Constitutional authority to interfere with slavery in any state where slavery is legal. -The Federal Government must enforce the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act. -The Missouri Compromise is Unconstitutional.

Some consider the Dred Scott Decision to be the worst decision ever rendered by the Supreme Court


TOPICS: History
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To: Pontiac

On the other hand, Lincoln’s premise was that secession was impossible because the union was perpetual, that legally, the South never left. So why did they need to be readmitted?


41 posted on 03/06/2018 11:06:51 AM PST by TexasKamaAina
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To: Pontiac
If the Confederate States had not actually secede then the Northern states had illegally withheld the Southern states rights to their seats in congress.

They don't care. They will argue it one way when it supports what they want, and they will argue it the very opposite way when that supports what they want.

The Union/NonUnion condition of the Southern confederacy is in a state of quantum superposition, being in both conditions simultaneously, depending on how the Union apologists need to characterize whatever particular point is being discussed at the time.

That cat is both dead and alive at the same time.

42 posted on 03/06/2018 11:07:41 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DoodleDawg; Pontiac
Most of the Southern congressional delegation voluntarily withdrew from Congress, and Congress could not force their legislature to replace them. Those that were expelled during the war were expelled because they were supporting armed rebellion against the United States.

See what I mean? They want to have it both ways!

43 posted on 03/06/2018 11:10:12 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DoodleDawg
There are those, myself among them, who would say there is no ratification controversy. It was passed out of the Senate in April 1864 and the House in January 1865. It was ratified by the states - including Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina, North Carolina, Arkansas, and Georgia - and became part of the Constitution on December 18, 1865. Those Southern states had to have active legislatures if they ratified the amendment.

Yes, no controversy at all. Don't most people willingly give up all the accumulated wealth and capital that they and their ancestors have acquired over the last "four score and seven years"?

Yes, I can see many states agreeing to give away the vast bulk of all their money in a vote such as this.

Yes, they legitimately voted to give away 80% of all their money. That makes perfect sense to everyone.

44 posted on 03/06/2018 11:14:53 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DoodleDawg
Had the rebellion not interfered you could count on the Republicans challenging all the aspects of the Taney decision in the courts.

They had four years, and so far as I can tell, all they did was bitch about it.

45 posted on 03/06/2018 11:17:02 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
Well if that is true, how did Lincoln revoke Article IV, section 2? If they were always part of the Union, the constitution required him to return their slaves, and it doesn't mention any exceptions to this rule.

The only person around here who thinks Lincoln revoked Article IV, Section 2 is you.

Well that's not true at all. The puppet government's put in place by the military forces occupying those lands voted in the way the puppets were told to vote.

Lincoln revoked Article IV because you say he did. Puppet governments because you say they were. Courts are biased because you say they are. I'm detecting a pattern here.

46 posted on 03/06/2018 11:23:10 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: TexasKamaAina
So why did they need to be readmitted?

They didn't.

47 posted on 03/06/2018 11:24:04 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DiogenesLamp
See what I mean? They want to have it both ways!

Both ways because you say it is?

48 posted on 03/06/2018 11:24:51 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
That's a reach as well.

Not really. The Fifth amendment makes it clear you cannot take them away, and Article IV, Section 2 means you have to give them back.

Between the rock of "cannot take them away" and the hard place of "must give them back" where do you see ground for an ability to prohibit slavery in the territory?

How could you stop it while remaining lawful to those two constitutional requirements?

49 posted on 03/06/2018 11:24:59 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
They had four years, and so far as I can tell, all they did was bitch about it.

I'm sure the rebellion was a distraction. And in the end they found a permanent solution through the 13th Amendment.

50 posted on 03/06/2018 11:26:00 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DiogenesLamp
That cat is both dead and alive at the same time.

Put a cork in it, Schrödinger.

51 posted on 03/06/2018 11:27:19 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
The only person around here who thinks Lincoln revoked Article IV, Section 2 is you.

The operative word is "think." You are correct. You do not agree with me because you do not think about this. It is paradoxical to your position.

Article IV, section 2 *REQUIRES* the federal government to return slaves.

There is no bend to it.

52 posted on 03/06/2018 11:29:00 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
Not really. The Fifth amendment makes it clear you cannot take them away, and Article IV, Section 2 means you have to give them back.

The Due Process was the Confiscation Acts, and Article IV, Section 2 applies to fugitives. Freed slaves moving from one state to another aren't fugitives.

53 posted on 03/06/2018 11:29:41 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Lincoln revoked Article IV because you say he did. Puppet governments because you say they were. Courts are biased because you say they are. I'm detecting a pattern here.

I do too. Anything that doesn't support what you *WANT* to believe, you claim I made it up.

No, it's the clear truth that any objective person can discern from the record.

54 posted on 03/06/2018 11:30:58 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: the Original Dan Vik

Hardly case won since you failed to show where the Cooper Institute address carries the weight of law - ESPECIALLY - prior to the Dred Scott ruling.

We can certainly discuss the ramification of Dred Scott and what changes that they led to. But my original premise remains: The ruling in Dred Scott, as misguided as it might have been, still followed the laws enacted the legal logic of that time.


55 posted on 03/06/2018 11:31:48 AM PST by taxcontrol (Stupid should hurt)
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To: DiogenesLamp
The operative word is "think." You are correct. You do not agree with me because you do not think about this. It is paradoxical to your position.

LOL! Not agreeing with your position does not indicate lack of thought so much as agreeing with your cockeyed ideas would.

Article IV, section 2 *REQUIRES* the federal government to return slaves.

After the Emancipation Proclamation they weren't slaves.

56 posted on 03/06/2018 11:35:07 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Both ways because you say it is?

You are mistaken. I would like nothing better than to pin you down on this point, but when it suits you, you will have the Confederacy out of the Union, and when it doesn't suit you, you will have them never having left.

You play this game pretending both conditions are true at the same time, and you ignore my efforts to solicit from you a response that acknowledges your position contradicts the actual facts of the situation.

As I mentioned. If the South never left the Union, how did Lincoln get around Article IV, section 2 which requires him to return freed slaves?

It sounds like Lincoln is the one who left the union, doesn't it?

57 posted on 03/06/2018 11:39:48 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DoodleDawg
I'm sure the rebellion was a distraction.

As the subsequent Chief Justice of the Supreme court noted, "secession is not rebellion."

But the people who caused all the bloodshed kept *CALLING* it rebellion, because without that fig leaf to justify their actions, they would rightly be viewed as monsters.

And in the end they found a permanent solution through the 13th Amendment.

The "13th amendment" was just another fig leaf for their dictatorial use of power. No knowledgeable and sane person would believe that those states would have ever agreed to that without guns pointed at their head.

58 posted on 03/06/2018 11:43:55 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DoodleDawg
The Due Process was the Confiscation Acts, and Article IV, Section 2 applies to fugitives.

No congressional law can circumnavigate a constitutional right. Congress cannot deprive anyone of property with a blanket law directed at a class. That does not even resemble the "due process" referred to in the fifth amendment.

It would have required a court proceeding for each and every iteration. Congress cannot do it en masse. Congress cannot even do it at all. Neither could the President do it legally.

59 posted on 03/06/2018 11:49:21 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Bull Snipe

Tanney was a nasty little man.


60 posted on 03/06/2018 11:50:19 AM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Progressivism is socialism. Venezuela is how it ends.)
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