Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

The last paragraph nails it: However, capturing hydrogen is still an elusive process and the simplest way of separating it from other compounds for use in such applications is to burn hydrocarbons, which are fossil fuels. Until this problem can be solved then, with the exception of Toyota and Honda, most car companies’ fuel cell cars will be of the conceptual variety.

That's the bottom line: it all comes back to an ultimate origin of the energy. In this case, the only practical way to get industrial amounts of hydrogen is through electrolysis. Something has got to create the energy for the electrolysis. And that process is going to be ultimately polluting, even if the energy is produced using so-called "renewable" methods.

Sadly, you're not going to get away from the second law of thermodynamics.

1 posted on 10/20/2017 3:48:51 AM PDT by markomalley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: markomalley
As I understand it the by product of producing hydrogen is water. I suppose millions of autos expelling water could cause a climate to become more humid. But, lots of people say we are running out of water. So, can't be all bad can it 🙄?
2 posted on 10/20/2017 3:56:59 AM PDT by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

That’s not true at all, electrolysis isn’t usually used for industrial scale production of hydrogen


3 posted on 10/20/2017 3:57:38 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

“Sadly, you’re not going to get away from the second law of thermodynamics.”

They could probably find a liberal judge to ignore the Law..


4 posted on 10/20/2017 3:59:22 AM PDT by neverevergiveup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

I have a hard time believing they can really make hydrogen a safe fuel for consumer use. Once the vehicle goes bouncing down the road for a hundred thousand mile and get a good eight or ten years on it, there is no way the seals are going to hold. It’s hard to prevent hydrogen from leaking under ideal circumstances. H2 is a pretty small molecule.


7 posted on 10/20/2017 4:01:36 AM PDT by SeeSharp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley
The Japanese carmakers seem to be competing to see which one can build the ugliest cars. Toyota appears to be winning.


8 posted on 10/20/2017 4:01:59 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (Hillary: Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect 2 billion dollars.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

As of 2016, 96% of global hydrogen production is from fossil fuels via steam reforming (48% from natural gas, 30% from oil, and 18% from coal); water electrolysis accounts for only 4%.

Electrolysis method uses approximately 50 kilowatt-hours of electricity per kilogram of hydrogen produced.

At $0.08/kWh (approx. $4/kg), producing hydrogen with electrolysis is is 3 to 10 times costlier than with steam reformation of natural gas.


19 posted on 10/20/2017 4:32:20 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

I’m with you: how many Kilocalories does it take to produce the fuel and fill a hydrogen fuel tank for a vehicle, and how many kilocalories of kinetic energy can that vehicle produce?

What “pollutants” were produced in reducing other compounds to release atomic hydrogen.

And by the way, water vapor is *the* most prevalent and active greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. So by modern ‘warmist’ standards, these vehicles are terrible polluters.

At least gasoline cars emit plant food (CO2) along with water vapor.


20 posted on 10/20/2017 4:36:46 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley
I've got no problem with fuel cells, but safety is a major concern. Here is a shot of a Tesla, which uses batteries (NOT fuel cells), after a crash. And there have been several crashes and fires, some fatal. Fighting the ensuing fire required special equipment and not every fire brigade has the equipment or the training. A car using hydrogen could end up like The Hindenburg.


24 posted on 10/20/2017 5:54:54 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Uranium One = BRIBERY and TREASON - HANG THEM ALL!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley
I think people forget one thing: the "exhaust" from a fuel cell automobile, water vapor, is a FAR more potent "greenhouse gas" than carbon dioxide. Millions of cars spewing water vapor is going to have a pretty pronounced effect on the local climate.
25 posted on 10/20/2017 7:33:37 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's Economic Cure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

The flaw in the argument is that water can only be converted into hydrogen with fossil fuels. Because hydrogen can be stored, off the grid power sources, such as solar and wind, can be utilized to ‘crack’ water into hydrogen and oxygen for use in fuel cells.

Interesting note: Brown’s gas is the result of hydrolysis, and burns quite well in internal reciprocating engines. Yes, water for gas DOES exist.


27 posted on 10/20/2017 8:59:13 AM PDT by RideForever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: markomalley

A catalyst promoting oxidation of aluminum when mixed with water, while efficiently releasing hydrogen on demand, has been accidentally discovered by an U.S. Army Research Lab. The aluminum would form a waste of oxide or hydroxide, which could be later re-processed.

A fuel cell would combine oxygen taken from air with this hydrogen to produce electricity, forming water as the reaction product. Barring large losses of water to the process, only a minor operating reserve of water might suffice in a mobile application.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2142693-nano-aluminium-offers-fuel-cells-on-demand-just-add-water/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319914023301


28 posted on 10/20/2017 12:43:51 PM PDT by Ozark Tom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson