Posted on 10/20/2017 3:48:51 AM PDT by markomalley
That's the bottom line: it all comes back to an ultimate origin of the energy. In this case, the only practical way to get industrial amounts of hydrogen is through electrolysis. Something has got to create the energy for the electrolysis. And that process is going to be ultimately polluting, even if the energy is produced using so-called "renewable" methods.
Sadly, you're not going to get away from the second law of thermodynamics.
That’s not true at all, electrolysis isn’t usually used for industrial scale production of hydrogen
“Sadly, you’re not going to get away from the second law of thermodynamics.”
They could probably find a liberal judge to ignore the Law..
OK, so what process is used to produce hydrogen in industrial quantities? (Asking, not challenging)
Creating hydrogen is highly efficient and clean.
I have a hard time believing they can really make hydrogen a safe fuel for consumer use. Once the vehicle goes bouncing down the road for a hundred thousand mile and get a good eight or ten years on it, there is no way the seals are going to hold. It’s hard to prevent hydrogen from leaking under ideal circumstances. H2 is a pretty small molecule.
Hell, burning wood “creates” Carbon and Water - the water can be broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen - the Hydrogen can be used as fuel and the Oxygen can be breathed by us - burn all the forests and we will have enough water/Hydrogen/Oxygen to meet all our needs......and enough Carbon to keep the graffiti artists happy too.....
“Thats not true at all, electrolysis isnt usually used for industrial scale production of hydrogen”
Well, not to be argumentative, or as we say in Texas start a p!$$ing contest, as this topic is not in my wheelhouse for sure. But, I’ve been reading articles about hydrogen powered cars for several years and those who mention by products or expellants mention water.
All this will come to fruition in the US as soon as we begin construction of massive power plants coal, gas, and nuclear. Solar, wind, and bio are wholly unequal to the task, in fact, wholly unequal to producing more than a small percentage of the required electricity to produce the huge quantities of hydrogen just as they for today’s needs.
Simple...methane CH4.
Water vapor is a far more powerful “greenhouse gas” than carbon dioxide.
A water vapor tax will be necessary as the proceeds from carbon taxes dwindle.
While burning hydrogen produces water, that doesn’t restrict the source of the hydrogen to being produced from water. A number of processes can separate hydrogen from hydrocarbons.
That car looks like it’s morphing into a bulldog.
Thanks. I learned something today. Entropy still applies.
But water removes itself from the atmosphere or haven’t you heard of rain and snow.
As of 2016, 96% of global hydrogen production is from fossil fuels via steam reforming (48% from natural gas, 30% from oil, and 18% from coal); water electrolysis accounts for only 4%.
Electrolysis method uses approximately 50 kilowatt-hours of electricity per kilogram of hydrogen produced.
At $0.08/kWh (approx. $4/kg), producing hydrogen with electrolysis is is 3 to 10 times costlier than with steam reformation of natural gas.
I’m with you: how many Kilocalories does it take to produce the fuel and fill a hydrogen fuel tank for a vehicle, and how many kilocalories of kinetic energy can that vehicle produce?
What “pollutants” were produced in reducing other compounds to release atomic hydrogen.
And by the way, water vapor is *the* most prevalent and active greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. So by modern ‘warmist’ standards, these vehicles are terrible polluters.
At least gasoline cars emit plant food (CO2) along with water vapor.
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