Brawls erupt as torch-wielding white supremacists march through University of Virginia campus

Daily News ^ | 8/12/17 | Jessica Chia

[wardaddy]

See 220

[af_vet_rr]

You can live in your noble crusade world all you want, but the whites in the North didn’t invade the South to Free the Negroes. In their minds it was to hold the Union together, because they genuinely feared ending up under European monarchial domination again if they did not.


I agree with you that many, mostly in the business, upper, and political classes were concerned Europe would have conquered both the North and South once they were separate and easy pickings.

However, abolition is what drove many in the North to sign up or support the War. Your typical factory worker wasn't thinking about Europeans invading a weakened North and South. Churches had been pushing abolition for generations - they recognized the sin in holding Christians in slavery. You go back and you read the newspapers in the North in the 20-30 years before the War. You listen to what church leaders were saying, you listen to the songs they sang and wrote. You listen to the arguments about Kansas, etc. They weren't singing or preaching about Europeans invading the USA.

You may not have heard of Shelby Foote (unless you caught him in the Ken Burns Civil War series on PBS). I went to a talk he gave maybe 25 years ago, and he mentioned that many in the South failed to understand that for many in the North, it was a religious crusade to free the slaves and punish the South - many Southern leaders ignored the songs the Northern soldiers sang and marched to, the ministers they heard, etc. They may have thought it was about Fort Sumter, but many in the North were aching for a catalyst like Fort Sumter.

[af_vet_rr]

The North was losing the war and so the war was repackaged in 1863 as war to end slavery which went over like a fart in church. Race/draft riots ensued the Goons EO on slavery.

You really need to go back and read what the rioters were complaining about - they (mostly Irish immigrants) were bitching that freed blacks would take their jobs, and they were pissed that the wealthy could buy their way out of the draft ( something like $12,000 - $15,000 in today's rate).

Go read up on the abolitionist movement - that was a huge driver in the War. They were pushing it for generations before the War.

[Pelham]

“Go read up on the abolitionist movement - that was a huge driver in the War. They were pushing it for generations before the War.”

That started as early as 1800 with the Massachusetts Essex Junto. Maybe even a few years earlier.

They tagged Thomas Jefferson as the “Negro President”, and began calling him and successive non-New England Presidents “agents of the Slave Power”.

It began a decades long campaign of hate aimed at the South. Eventually led to the things like the progressives of Boston arming John Brown and his killers.

This long neglected history is the subject of Thomas Fleming’s 2013 “A Disease in the Public Mind: A New Understanding of Why We Fought the Civil War”

There’s more than a little similarity between those days and the hatemongering Left of today.

[mac_truck]

I see the extremes battling it out.....this is the first step in civil conflict

First misstep is more like it...every nationalist group in the country now has a target on their back because some jackass let opposition paid neo-nazi and KKK types infect the movement.

Really gotta wonder who's paying Richard Spencer to unite the left against Donald Trump

[wardaddy]

Someone has to push back against the hard left

You and I aren’t out there are we?

I saw those in Berkeley and they didn’t look like Klan

I’m not in favor of removing statues and nor I assume are you so are we white nationalists by default

I can’t care what the media calls me and if urban non white goons surround my little bucolic oasis one night when the power has been out a month looking for spoils I won’t care if the klan or white nationalist militia show up to help us out

People are getting tired of being pushed around

I have been now since all this nonsense started in the 80s

So I’m not dismayed to see some whites stirred up it’s not just whites you can easily label with the perjorative

My tribe is just the low hanging fruit you know I’ve said this for decades

[mac_truck]

Look, there are literally a dozen planned marches and protests scheduled across the country in the next two weeks that now have a target on their back after the fiasco in C’ville.

This is the second time the KKK was featured at one of these monument protests, and now we’ve got neo-Nazis marching with them, so is it really that surprising someone got killed?

Keep the Nazis and the KKK off your platforms and if you can’t do that gtfo of the nationalist movement.

[wardaddy]

My movement?

Lol

[wardaddy]

I was in lake bruin louisana with extended family boating and tanning and celebrating my 91 year old WWII combat vet uncles birthday

“My movement” went on without me

[sport]

I wouldbe willing to go out on a limb and say George Soros.

[Regulator]

Your typical factory worker wasn't thinking about Europeans invading a weakened North and South

But they were thinking about eliminating slaves as economic competition which you pointed out in the next post about the Irish draft riots in 1863.

"Free Soil, Free Labor" - the original political plank of the Republican Party - Labor that could bargain for higher wages. Not slaves, who were paid nothing except the worst possible room and board.

And that's really what drove a lot of the Northerners.

It's history that's lost to at least 3 generations.

As for abolition, I used to believe that it was a big deal like you and others here - it definitely was for my family; abolition and liquor trafficking were enough to send my people West. But they were a lot more religiously committed, being Dunkards and Anabaptists. The average Anglican wasn't all that upset by the less savory aspects of Southern life.

So after many years of paying more attention - and yes, we all watched Shelby do his best Suthrun Gentleman act on PBS back in the day - I came to the understanding that the attitudes in the North were motivated by more then just anguished Virtue with regard to freeing the slaves, and that Southerners who pointed that out weren't merely engaged in blame deflection.

For example, the State of Indiana required Blacks to post a $1000 bond to reside in the state prior to the war. For example:

Both Indiana (1816) and Illinois (1818) abolished slavery by their constitutions. And both followed the Ohio policy of trying to prevent black immigration by passing laws requiring blacks who moved into the state to produce legal documents verifying that they were free and posting bond to guarantee their good behavior. The bond requirements ranged as high as $1,000, which was prohibitive for a black American in those days

Reference: Slavery in the North

I grant you that many were genuinely appalled by slavery, and the State Constitutions that prohibited it showed that. Also, I have read many of the treatises by Lincoln and especially Seward (who my father thought was even more important, along with Polk) about the immorality and implications of slavery.

No one is disputing that.

But were the Northerners fighting for an aracial civic state, as the Radical Republicans eventually insisted on after the War?

Not from what I can tell. Their real reasons were economic, political (bonds of the Union and all that...), and moral as regards slavery. And in that order, for the vast majority.

They weren't planning on having Erasmus Freedman for a neighbor in Boston and possibly marrying Priscilla Goodthwaite.

So forgive me for being cynical and questioning the noble motives of my ancestors. In some cases I can safely say they were John Brown's most ardent supporters, and in others I can say they just went along with Lincoln's assertion that saving the Union was a sacred crusade.

But I always knew my other ancestors still in the South were not pro-slavery and in many cases were still pro-Union. This is common knowledge in Western North Carolina, and some people even fought on both sides at the same time. There were many who opposed secession as the cause of the rich planters as you know.

But they fought as Confederates for different reasons: anger at the North for the threats as previously noted, pressure to go along with the secession as mandated by the state legislatures, and in most cases, they just got drafted and had to serve. The Home Guard in Georgia was especially bad about forced impressment into the state regiments, leading to routine and massive desertion.

[Ohioan]

Your comments, as always are factual and particularly apt. Predictably the media will paint this weekend's events with a false brush.

Let me put this in the context of what has gone immediately before the contemporary situation:

Civil War, Reconstruction & Creating Hate In America Today

[Bodleian_Girl]

Main “witness” is Brennan Gilmore. (He’s all over the news today also. Lead column in Politico.)

CIA asset with the State Department during the KONY psyops who just happens to have worked with/for Tom Perillo who received $300,000 from Soros.

He’s there on the corner with his video rolling, captures “select” parts of the scene, including the car, but pans away at the last moment.

Then, within just a few more minutes, (before he tweets his video and goes viral), he’s interviewed as a “man on the street” with a major media outlet while the body is still on the ground.
He states that “THIS IS DOMESTIC TERRORISM.”

He goes on to follow all the canned talking points that McAuliffe will parrot, just an hour or so later.

https://archive.is/OIP2Y

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6tkbo1/brennan_gilmore_filmed_the_

[wardaddy]

Can u elaborate please

Freepmail if u wish