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To: Mrs. Don-o; Olog-hai

That's double-talk.

Hey, lady. I provided a link to the chapter.

It wasn't the typical suicide, or even typical murder/suicide. Not that I recommending doing either --- God forbid.

But he did ask God that he die with the Philistines as it is written.

To Olog-hai I'll admit there remains possibility that the reference I had supplied was to one who was not truly righteous...

More generally, it could be further considered there was only one who qualifies for that descriptive ---and his death, although willingly submitted to, was not suicide on his own part, but Deiocide (killing God) on part of the "world" itself, so to speak.

What killed Jesus? It wasn't so much the Romans themselves, nor was it the Jewish religious authorities, even though they did do their duty and slayed the sacrifice --but in the way they did so-- Christ's resurrection judging & condemning their own ways among all the rest of sinful ways of man. From top to bottom the veil of Temple rent (was torn) revealing what was inside that holy of holies, the true meanings visible for those who come close enough to inspect, the multiple layers of the veil itself having meanings...

It was sin that killed Jesus ---

ours.

He knew it would, and so did His Father who sent Him -- the lamb slain from foundation of the world: https://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=Revelation+13%3A8.

Romans 8:3;

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh

Amidst what I'm not alone in assuming was excruciating pain, among his words spoken from the cross;

Father, forgive them they know not what they do

Luke 23:34

To have compared Samson to soldier throwing himself upon grenade, sacrificing himself for his fellows ---was in the neighborhood, but a bit wide of the mark -- not even *quite* on the paper, Mrs. Don-o.

You got the wrong guy.

But in blindness, a form of blindness, I do fear that a greater Samson, one of larger dimension, of greater number thus of great strength in numbers, a people & nations(?) may again do somewhat as what was done before...and it seems like we're already part-way there. We do love us some Delilahs. As a nation and a culture too much -- we do.

Samson was blinded as recompense in his own flesh for his love of worldly realm of beauty, and of flesh. She proved deceitful.

The jihadi loves him some Delilahs too, and thinks he is entitled to them all for his own carnal pleasure promised (falsely so) to continue in heavenly paradise, guaranteed to himself if he'll go murder those Delilah lovers. Is that guy blind -- or what?

I knew too that this nation's reaction to the events of Sept. 11 2001 would be bad, mixed up, probably make things worse (Bin Laden had a plan - though I learn of that aspect, what it really meant, how it worked in their heads, what that one man's name was, only later) even prior to Sept 11, 2001 ---for I heard the curse in the Spirit come to me one day, late February of that year I think it was, the Lord later confirmed to me the basics (hijacked airliners, both buildings would be destroyed) of what was to occur ---and His grief over those things was deep & profound.

When he shared that -- what He felt, doing so wordlessly, I was stunned.

It was not only about those who would die in NYC in the ways they did. When I realized that part -- oh no! This is going to be bad. I was at a loss of what to do to do, who to tell WHAT TO SAY. How to explain these things? (I'm still struggling with it)

I told only a few -- and only one of those I told even remembers that I did. I'm powerless to change some things that will be the future...can do only so much. Very little, as it turns out --and nothing much very much "good" at all, not without some fire of inspiration from Him, anyhow.

That was then, this is now. It's too late to talk about predicting it, and it's far too late to change what's now already happened. But I'm not sure what to do next. Abide until He returns? All right, what choice do we have? Bear all things, believe all things, hope all things, endure all things(?) Aaw, man. Do I have to?

I'd rather be fishing. Yet as always, as then anyway, without Him, will catch nothing.

If ever I'm afforded grace and funds to set up a round-haul boat -- somebody remind me to set it up favoring circling to starboard instead of port. Ambidextrous (capable of reversing the set) might be best...

87 posted on 07/01/2017 4:57:52 PM PDT by BlueDragon (whattya' mean you don't believe in Climate Change? the weather always seems to be changing...)
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To: BlueDragon; Olog-hai
Because of certain ambiguities and paradoxes in Samuel's personal history, I think I can say the meaning of his final act can be interpreted several ways. Let me examine those several ways briefly, and then summarize why my opinion is that this was not suicide in the classic, morally objectionable sense.

First, there's the paradox that Samson was, from even before his birth, set as part to be holy and purely dedicated to the Lord. That's the meaning of his being a Nazirite.

Yet his whole career shows that he was ruled by his passions. You know the episodes of his wayward wilfulness, and his regular violation of the purity of his calling.

In the end, his act can be interpreted as the sheer passion of revenge. He says he wants to bring the pagan temple down, not to honor the God of Israel, not to discredit the pagan deities, not even to strike a blow for his people, but simply as revenge for having been blinded by the Philistines. He is --- as he says --- avenging his eyes.

But is this the whole story? If this is the case ---if he was a lifelong slave of his passions, desiring at the end only revenge and his own death --- it's hard to see why he'd be highlighted in the Hebrews 11 Hall of Fame, as a righteous man among the OT saints of God.

I propose the possibility that

(1) Samson implicitly intended the destruction of the Philistines' temple as a blow for Israel and for the true God --- in accordance with his calling as a set-apart holy Nazirite; and

(2) that his cry, "Let me die with the Philistines," might be understood to mean, "Give me the strength to do this even if it means I'll die with the Philistines."

Much as a young American soldier at Normandy might have prayed, "Here I go. God give me strength. I'll likely die. Let me die for my country!" Not because he desires his own death, but because he desires the strength to go forward even if his deathn is solidly probable.

Why do I make all these assumptions of virtue which do not appear in the text of Judges? Because the are implied in the text of Hebrews.

If Samson wanted to just get revenge against those who maimed him, and die, he was not acting as as a dedicated holy man, but was simply a slave of his self-destructive passions to the end. No hero, no saint, really, no Nazirite.

But if, despite his weaknesses, he was simply accepting (not desiring) his death for the sake of God and God's people --- then it's fitting he should be in the Hebrews Honor Roll. He exemplifies the heroism of self-sacrifice, not the sin of suicide.

88 posted on 07/01/2017 6:03:26 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (He shall save the children of the poor, and crush the oppressor.)
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