Posted on 03/10/2017 8:44:22 AM PST by Cementjungle
Our generator has been stone reliable (and since we have our own gas well on property, fuel costs are not an issue).
Two things about the Kohler 20RESA and its transfer switch:
First, if the mains power flickers on/off several times in brief succession, the transfer switch gets discombobulated and I have to go out, open the switch panel and press a few buttons to bring it back on line. Has happened 6-7 times in the four years we have owned it.
Second, oil changes are a PITA. Scraped knuckles and some dirty oil spilled are standard features.
Other than that I have zero gripes.
We live in an unincorporated part of Palm Beach county... about 2 miles from the end of the major East/West road that leads toward town. After that it's swampland and nothingness. So, I expect our power could be among the last in the area to get restored.
When I spoke with the HOA about what they need, I was told that several folks have been doing this, so yes, finding others and talking to them is a good idea. I know of one neighbor who has a gigantic unit on his house... it looks like and industrial unit. I think he's a retired NFL guy so money isn't a big deal for him...he has the best maintained house in the whole place.
So practically speaking, a whole house generator is a very very expensive proposition that will likely never be used to a great extent. So what are you trying to power? The whole house for a couple of weeks until utilities are completely restored? Or do you just want to show the neighbors who will all come over that you have power when nobody else does? We are in Central FL but we wen through Hugo in ‘89 and brother was an FPL Engineer at Turkey Point when Andrew hit. He was about to close on a house in Cutler Ridge the following week.
I have a couple of Generators and they are purposed specifically for their intended use. Let me say up front, all of my generators are dual fuel: Propane and gasoline for a couple of reasons.
Propane can be stored almost indefinitely. Gasoline cannot. I keep about 15 gallons on hand for a riding mower since I cut about 1.5 acres a week so I usually have a bit of fresh gas on hand and another 60 or so in the tanks of 4 cars. We keep everything topped off in hurricane season. We also have a 500 gallon propane tank with the capability to fill 20#, 30# and 100# tanks which can be moved around. We also have the ability to fill the small camping bottles for lanterns and such (along with gasoline and oil lanterns).
The largest generator is a 9000W/8000W that we keep in the pump house because we are on well. We put a 220V connection in that 30 amp line. Frankly on well and septic, as long as you can keep the well running you can survive just fine. Two others are for fridge/freezer and a portable AC unit for the bedroom. Here’s the really interesting part, my two smaller units can be connected together to essentially replace the larger unit. Also, when power goes down, I trip the main, then open 220V/30A breakers: hot water, oven, dryer, AC and well. Then all of the 15A/110V breakers. Start the big generator to pressurize the tank. Once that kicks off I add back the fridge and freezer loops and manage the loads. Typically the well starting surge is about is about 5500W.
Once toilets are flushed, freezer is cold, phones charged, showers done, dishes washed, pressure tank full...we shut it back down.
The small and much more energy wise generators are used at night if needed, usually or a portable AC.
No big investment. Everything is modular and can be changed out.
So practically speaking, a whole house generator is a very very expensive proposition that will likely never be used to a great extent. So what are you trying to power? The whole house for a couple of weeks until utilities are completely restored? Or do you just want to show the neighbors who will all come over that you have power when nobody else does? We are in Central FL but we wen through Hugo in ‘89 and brother was an FPL Engineer at Turkey Point when Andrew hit. He was about to close on a house in Cutler Ridge the following week.
I have a couple of Generators and they are purposed specifically for their intended use. Let me say up front, all of my generators are dual fuel: Propane and gasoline for a couple of reasons.
Propane can be stored almost indefinitely. Gasoline cannot. I keep about 15 gallons on hand for a riding mower since I cut about 1.5 acres a week so I usually have a bit of fresh gas on hand and another 60 or so in the tanks of 4 cars. We keep everything topped off in hurricane season. We also have a 500 gallon propane tank with the capability to fill 20#, 30# and 100# tanks which can be moved around. We also have the ability to fill the small camping bottles for lanterns and such (along with gasoline and oil lanterns).
The largest generator is a 9000W/8000W that we keep in the pump house because we are on well. We put a 220V connection in that 30 amp line. Frankly on well and septic, as long as you can keep the well running you can survive just fine. Two others are for fridge/freezer and a portable AC unit for the bedroom. Here’s the really interesting part, my two smaller units can be connected together to essentially replace the larger unit. Also, when power goes down, I trip the main, then open 220V/30A breakers: hot water, oven, dryer, AC and well. Then all of the 15A/110V breakers. Start the big generator to pressurize the tank. Once that kicks off I add back the fridge and freezer loops and manage the loads. Typically the well starting surge is about is about 5500W.
Once toilets are flushed, freezer is cold, phones charged, showers done, dishes washed, pressure tank full...we shut it back down.
The small and much more energy wise generators are used at night if needed, usually or a portable AC.
No big investment. Everything is modular and can be changed out.
“Also... the bigger units supposedly put out less noise (water cooled vs not) and run more efficiently”
Probably true; but a serious piece of sound-deadening enclosure might be the better investment.
All in all it is a complex series of interconnected considerations, not trivial at all.
Great feedback... thanks. Your own gas well? Wow... that’s one I’ve never heard before... sounds interesting indeed!
me too.
Natural Gas for fuel source is best option.
Big commercial ups setups use caterpillar for big generators.
Monthly tests are a given. Make a decision for partial power,. Make most lighting LED. Isolate some rooms for select power, clothes dryer for example. Once that amperage number is good, then consult with electrician on the additional panel, then decide on generators.
Make a test each season with total outage to gain confidence of the routine in worst conditions. Good luck
“Anyone have experience with whole-home generators?”
yes, i’ve just researched this extensively in the past months and finally made a purchase a couple of months ago.
Based on many comments on many websites and experiences with friends who are actually owners, I’ve decided that the home consumer GENERACs are Chinese junk, and the Kohlers are not much better. Perhaps excepting the Wincos, almost none of the rest are even worth considering.
If you read the complete fine-print of their “warranties” neither is worth the paper they’re written on, particularly the GENERACs. Both have so many disclaimers you can forget about ever actually getting any warranty service.
The GENERACs use some kind of proprietary Chinese engine and the needlessly complex controller board costs a thousand bucks to replace, and apparently it fails often.
I have a friend with a GENERAC and it’s failed nearly every time they used it.
I also researched fuels and decided natural gas (NG) is the only way to go if you have it, and if not, then liquid propane (LP) is the second best way to go. Do note that the nominal kilowatt (KW) rating is specified at sea level with gasoline as the fuel, and that both altitude and NG/LP fuels derate the output. NG derates more than LP. I live at a mile high, so my unit is derated by 20% right off the bat, plus the additional derating for the natural gas.
I finally decided to buy one of these:
https://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/Honda-16kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04599
This unit basically consists of a big-arse Mecc Alte gen-head bolted onto a Honda GSX 690 stationary engine setup from the Honda factory for LP/NG, so no carb conversion is necessary for gaseous fuels. The GSX 690 is perhaps the best small stationary engine made today, and the Mecc Alte gen-head is one of the finest made today.
It can be setup outside as a permanent installation on a pad with a hut with an automatic transfer switch (ATS), but i decided to go a simpler route and forego the ATS in lieu of a manually-actuated interlock on my main circuit panel, and to keep my unit inside of my heated garage on a rolling cart I made, and if/when needed, roll it out the garage door and quick-connect it to both the NG and the breaker panel.
We have snows as much as 3’ deep here upon occasion and occasionally temps as low as 23 below zero Fahrenheit with occasional highs of 15 below zero for a couple weeks at a time, so I didn’t want an outdoor unit that could get covered with snow and wouldn’t start because the oil was nearly frozen.
I’ll post some pics in a bit if anyone is interested.
We get royalties, plus free gas (there is a cap in ccf per year, but we've never hit it). The well is about 800 feet from the house.
I've become a major anti-coal activist since my monthly royalty check went from $1100 to $300 :-)
In my exposure, natural gas is best if you’re on a line, diesel if you’re not.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. The 10 days or so is probably a good
estimate to get most of the utility power back online. But the next question
becomes at what stage can the home owner connect back to the grid to use the
power. It make take weeks for homes to be repaired so they can use the power.
I have a cousin who installed a generator transfer switch system. Don’t know much about it but iirc it was called “Gen Tran” and was a method of switching the entire house from electric to the generator in the event of emergency. Seems like a real good idea.
Ha.....we were living in Miami Springs when Andrew came through. Concrete block house built in 1947 with concrete tile roof, built like a pillbox, before building codes.
You couldn't sell me a 1970's-1980's house in Florida at any price. Lots of $1 million plus homes where the sheetrock is the strongest thing in the wall structure.
I don't...yet...that's why I ask. Current skill level is basic switch, outlet, lighting, etc. wiring...BUT willing to learn. YES and have a real electrician do the final inspection and hookup.
Tesla uses their own 7071 lithium ion, just a tad bigger in dimensions but with 30 to 50% more capacity than the 18680 in common usage
A lot of the neighbors already have generators, some small, some larger.
The main driving reason is to keep one A/C unit going. Down here, in the summer, it can get unbearable after just a couple hours of A/C. The humidity would damage our large collection of valuable lithographs, and after a while the wooden cabinets and other stuff would probably suffer as well.
The calculus seems to boil down to either spending a bunch to put in wiring, propane tank, machine, etc. to power the minimum... or, since I'm going that far, why not spend a bit more and go all the way and power 80% of the house and be very conformable in the end.
I don't want to spend a lot, but I must at least get the A/C going... and keep it going, or the potential loss is very large... not to mention it would be extremely miserable here for an extended outage in the summer.
We live in Californicator Land, and power failures used to be very common in the winter and spring. A drunk driver could take out a power pole in any month. Our electricity at that time was more expensive than natural gas. If you didn’t use a lot electricity between 12 pm- 6 pm, you got a discount.
Coscto had these natural gas generators on sale at a good price.
One of our younger relatives is an engineer with a double degree in mechanical and electical. His advice was to hold off for while as his company saw natural gas prices really increasing in California as the greenies pushed NG over other heating.
He suggested two heating and ac units for our house with separate areas to heat or cool and Next Thermometers to help control the heat and cost. We put a smaller unit in an area that we basically only use with company and over night guests. A bigger unit was put in the area that services our kitchen, family room, laundry and master bedroom where we spend 95%+ of our time.
Our total PG&E bills (gas and electric) dropped a mimimum of 50% to 70 % per month versus the same month in past years’s with the old furnance/ac unit.
Also, PG&E’s smart meters have really cut down on power outages on the previous large scale. We had one power failure for over a few minutes, a two hour one last month when a drunk took out a power pole.
In the meantime PG&E cancelled the good electrical rate program we had and hammers you if you use electricity between 1 pm and now 7 pm.
That kills you if you cook dinner or do normal things before 7pm.
One of our neighbors bought one of the Costco generators to avoid the not using electricity between 1 pm and 7 pm. His NG gas generator comes on at 1 pm and goes unil 7:01 pm.
In the meantime PG&E raised their winter rates with a two tier program. Use the minimal tier and your gas charges
go sky high.
Due to the cold winter for us, our Nov and Feb NG bills increased $100 per month and our Dec/Jan bills went up $200 per month. Just what you need with Christmas and property tax bills.
However, our neighbor’s NG bills increased by 4-500 $’s for Nov/Feb and 800-1000$’s versus the same months last year with his Costco NG generator.
Best way to go is to get an interlock on the breaker panel. It’s a mechanical lock switch that only allows the generator breaker to be on if the main breaker is off. Then run the wire from the generator breaker to the outside of the house. I wouldn’t put a generator in the garage, to much fumes. Then you pick what breakers will be on in the house, with all breakers potentialy available.
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