Posted on 12/30/2016 8:06:14 AM PST by mad_as_he$$
IN MARCH OF 1965, the first U.S. troops landed in Vietnam. They were carrying the M14 rifle, chambered for the 7.62×51mm NATO (M80 Ball) cartridge, which had a detachable 20-round magazine and was capable of semi- and full-automatic fire. The military soon learned the M14 on full auto was extremely difficult to control; most burst fire was ineffective.
As a result, many M14 rifles were issued with the selector levers removed, making the rifle effectively, an M1 Garand with a 20-round magazine. The M14 was accurate but heavy, weighing nearly nine pounds, empty. As U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War escalated, our troops encountered North Vietnamese as well as the Vietcong carrying the Soviet-designed AK47 (Avtomat Kalashnikova model 47), chambered for the 7.62×39mm Soviet cartridge, and had a 30-round magazine. The AK’s light recoil permitted controllable, accurate full-auto bursts and American troops began to feel outgunned. The United States needed it’s own assault rifle — and needed it fast.
During the early 1950s, ArmaLite, a division of Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation of Hollywood, California, was working on a new assault rifle. The chief engineer was Eugene M. Stoner (1922–1997), described by many as the most gifted firearms designer since John Browning. His first attempt to create a new assault rifle was designated the AR10 (ArmaLite Rifle model 10).
(Excerpt) Read more at gundigest.com ...
Military advisors were in Nam from 1956-1957 in small cadres and increased by JFK and then by LBJ. See Plain of Jar and Military assistance Vietnam under Pres. Eisenhower.
I think that I should differ: I carried a full-auto M-14 in combat from January 1966 to May 1967. I am only medium height but the rifle was controllable as long as you learned to control the trigger and you held it firmly. I used an M-16 “clothespin” bipod for support and had no trouble with 3-4 round bursts with a man- size target at 100m or better.
I wouldn’t have traded my ‘14 for anything else!
The full auto M-14 was never meant for long bursts of fire. Like the BAR, the M-14 is most useful in 4 to 5 round bursts that will extend barrel life. The idea behind the M-14 was the potential that every grunt would be a BAR man.
The M14 is lighter than the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle. It would have made some sense to give the M-14 a bipod and scope and give it to the squad's best marksman.
Gaffer,
I wasn’t taking issue with your father’s potential deployment and/or medical disability. I’m retired Army and can understand your mother’s reasons, especially since I have a cousin who left the Marines after 12 years because he got a third reassignment to Okinawa after he had been back to the States for 6 months and had been ‘promised’ that he would be stateside for 2-3 years before his next overseas tour.
I was just including you to give you the information about the Army’s official histories that cover the advisory and combat periods.
The US had “advisors” in Vietnam under Eisenhower. Kennedy increased their number.
We basically took over the war after the French lost Dien Bien Phu.
Damn M-16 was a disaster. When we got it in late ‘66, it had crappy sights, a cheesy stock that shattered if you hit anyone with it, and jammed over and over. We had to carry assembled cleaning rods, like a Civil War muzzle loader, to knock the seized cartridge cases out of the chambers.
The M-16 was a least-bidder weapon designed by somebody with no combat experience at all. Otherwise Stoner wouldn’t have designed a weapon with an inaccessible chamber for warfare in a filthy tropical environment. Scores of Marines and soldiers died because that cheap piece of crap jammed solid at the worst possible time or missed when it should have hit, or when it did hit someone, they just kept going.
If we needed any evidence that our country didn’t care much about us, the M-16 was the final slap in the face.
Explain then the BAR.
Didn’t the BAR stock attach to the belt and feed from a box mag at one point? WWII?
prior to that time, the military were serving as unarmed advisors to the South Vietnamese army
My dad also enlisted in 1939. He got out after the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion. The story goes that he was the Chief on a seagoing tug boat barging a load of weapons and supplies from Virginia to Cuba. My Dad was a serious smoker and always packed enough cartons of smokes based upon his estimated time at sea. The problem was his crew of young men were not so attentive to their needs and they tapped him out.. When he pulled into harbor in Georgia he was out of cigarettes and when he got off the boat to head to the PX, he was stopped on the pier due to the secrecy of his mission. Not long after that they got the stand down order. Wen he got back to Ft. Eustis he walked in and turned in his retirement papers. His CO asked him why (his promotion to CW 3 had already been approved) he said he had fought in WWII and Korea and could always get cigarettes but when he couldn’t get them when he was in the states it was time to get out!
Then he went to work for the Navy maintaining marine diesel engines in the civil service and was still wounded in Vietnam working for a government contractor...
The BAR had a bipod and weighed 16-24 pounds, depending on configuration.
The M-14 weighed 9 pounds with no bipod.
Daddy was in the Combat Engineers in WWII. He had quit smoking during the depression.
He sent his entire paycheck home to Mother in addition to the allotment she got. He had almost no need for money and could sell his cigarette ration for more than he needed. There were always plenty who wanted to buy whatever you had.
Yes, while prone and using a bipod.
Still, a wild adventure with every burst.
My dad was there prior to 1965. TDY, then went officially with the 1/7 until he was wounded in operation Starlight.
This man is easily 250lbs.
Watch the muzzle of the rifle and imagine where the bullets are hitting down range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSceYZsGbkU
My dad favored a shotgun.
All you needed was plenty of trigger time with it. At first, you emptied the magazine and most of the rounds went way high - but once you developed a feel for it, short, accurate bursts were the rule. Best part was that it worked really well against ambushes. Tore through any cover.
Great rifle.
“Great rifle.”
Agreed. But best used in semi-auto.
A devastating battle rifle.
Some historians point to the assertion that JFK was “weak” at the famous Vienna conference with Kruschev, and sought to burnish his tough guy credentials against the communists by focusing on the Reds in Indochina.
I never did “get” the whole domino theory either. In retrospect it’s clear they should have deployed here against the commies in Berkely or Columbia et. al, not halfway around the world.
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