[Yaelle]

I have over the years consistently been impressed by your posts. I’m surprised at how much we disagree on Trump and Cruz.

I am not a Christian so perhaps speaking about Christianity is not even appropriate for me to do, but just as a friend I want to share my impression. One of the wonderful things about the Christian religion is the forgiveness of its believers - by the Lrd, yes, but also by each other. This part is so well represented by the tale of the prodigal son and also in the song Amazing Grace.

Donald Trump doesn’t tell people he is holy and pure nor pretend to be closer to Gd than thee, but he does say, rather honestly, that he loves his religion and his church and he is a Christian. I’d never tell anyone he isn’t the region he honestly says he is. He seems like a real Christian with real sins and forgiveness, worshiping quietly in his way.

Ted Cruz is always very vocal about his Christianity, and often wears it like a holy mantle. Yet he has been in the last few weeks somewhat deceptive and somewhat less than honest in his campaigning. He literally said Trump would put his sister on the SC, and that Trump would hurt the Second Amendment, which were both provably false. There are a lot of examples.

When I, from outside the flock, look at the two Christians, I am embarrassed for Christianity that the one who professes his faith so very loudly is, once more, stereotypically, the one who doesn’t seem to practice its morality. The one who never owns his sins is the one who hurts both the flock and the reputation of the flock. It was the classic cheating, lying televangelist who spawned all those horrible anti-Christian characters in movies. I am so offended by the anti-Christian take in media, but here again we have the guy who acts like he bathes in holy water being the least “Christian” in behavior. I see the two men opposite from your view and I’m just sorry.

[nathanbedford]

Yaelle, I have come to respect your contributions to this thread over the years and I certainly take your criticism very seriously. More, I think the issue you raise, the treatment of Christianity especially evangelical Christianity, is well worth exploring.

Let's assume for a moment that neither Trump nor Cruz pretends to Christian virtue. In other words, we must judge these candidates on the basis of their deeds alone without reference to whether or not they are Christian hypocrites. In post #117 I alleged the following about Donald Trump:

He tried to throw elderly people out into the street so they can convert their apartments into condominiums; he tries to evict little old ladies from their home so he can build parking lots for gamblers limousines; that he has hired illegal aliens; he has greased politicians; he has lied about the quality of his buildings; he has instituting frivolous lawsuits; he associates with convicted felons; he has fleeced vulnerable students; he has acted as a bully; and he has vilified, intimidated, sued, bankrupted and defrauded people; he has lied about his opposition to the war in Vietnam.

This is damning bill of particulars and I aver that many more peccadillos could be added to it. Against this indictment on this thread we are told that this is "old news", and other words, no attempt is made to defend Donald Trump on the substance of these charges.

Let us move to a consideration of Ted Cruz:

He is alleged to have behaved in a "sleazy" manner in the Ben Carson affair in Iowa; he is alleged to have distributed "sleazy" flyers in Iowa; (I would add for later consideration the following charge: in the biblical phrase, "he makes broad his phylacteries"(in other words he wears his religion on his sleeve and, in your words, that can be "embarrassing.")

Now if the charges against Donald Trump are true surely you would say that this is a man of dubious qualification to be the moral and secular leader of the nation. If these charges against Ted Cruz are true, you would surely say this is merely the rub and chaff of the political contest. I am prepared to indict and prosecute Donald Trump on the bill of particulars outlined above and I am prepared to defend Ted Cruz on these lesser charges as well. But what happens with these charges against both men is that Trump supporters move the goalposts, they change the standard, in fact, they apply almost no standard to Donald Trump even as they apply an impossible standard to Ted Cruz. How does the supporter of Donald Trump justify inverting these standards of judgment? They accuse Ted Cruz of making broad his phylacteries and they claim that because he is a prominent exponent of his religion, he is a hypocrite and therefore unworthy.

The Christian religion quite rightly points to forgiveness as you have accurately pointed out but then the Christian conception of man is of a fallen sinner in need of redemption, "all have sinned all fall short of the glory of God," hence the need for rebirth. As Paul said, it is the good that I would do that I do not and the evil that I would not do that I do, indicating that even the reborn Christian is subject to sin. A Christian familiar with his Bible is not surprised that Ted Cruz is not perfect but that same Christian does not lose perspective in the real world. He would ask, what is the nature and degree of sin this Ted Cruz? He would ask, is it Ted Cruz who is a disgrace to Christianity or is it the outsider who purports to be so put off because Ted Cruz is not 100% perfect while he proclaims his faith?

Ted Cruz has an absolute right to proclaim his faith, in fact he has a biblical obligation so to do in the great commission and it is not necessary for him to separate strictly his politics from his religion. Those who insist that he do so and claim they are put off when he declines to do so, are fixing a standard to him which is unreasonable. Worse, they pervert the standard and use it to forgive (as though they had that power) to forgive the far greater sins of Donald Trump. They claim they are segregating the religious from the political world but in fact they are perverting them both.

If Ted Cruz's religion is to be so deplored, why is it that he leadssuch an exemplary life? If Donald Trump's religion is so enlightened why does he leave so many victims in his wake?