Lies My Teacher Told Me: The True History of the War for Southern Independence

Shotwell Publishing ^ | Clyde N. Wilson

[soakncider]

Good for him! many innocent people suffered then, and the ripples are still being felt to this day.

[soakncider]

not if I’m in his house

[soakncider]

as an intruder

[CommerceComet]

I would argue that the union as formed, has not been preserved. What we have now is less than the Constitutional Republic as founded, due to an all powerful central government. Which has known little restraint since the war.

Personally, I'm not sure the republic envisioned by the apologists of the south ever really existed. Kind of like how conservative Presbyterians have idolized the American Puritan community. I suspect that the truth in both cases is different than what is envisioned by their proponents in their romanticized, utopian views.

That said, I'm not a fan of a strong centralized government. IMO, the issues behind the Civil War are complicated. Black and white thinking is probably not applicable in a lot of cases. I don't assume someone with sympathies to the confederate cause is a racist nor should someone with sympathies to the union cause be assumed to be a proponent of centralized government. There were good men and women on both sides of the conflict and there were good and bad causes on both sides. That is probably why it is such a tragedy.

[soakncider]

and along those lines, the union apologists’ ideal of preserving the union at all costs has been proven to be fatally flawed

[Twinkie]

Daddy & his people used to say that Lincoln didn’t have to
have that war. Slavery was on its way out before long
anyway. - Now, we’ve got what we’ve got. “Whitey” is hated,
both North & South & is forever in debt to the black race.
The Democrat Party has just decimated the black race &
turned them into much less than was their potential to be.
Now, they’re merely automatic votes for any Democrat, no
matter how cynical.

[CommerceComet]

and along those lines, the union apologists’ ideal of preserving the union at all costs has been proven to be fatally flawed

Could you explain? I'm not sure that I understand the point you're trying to make.

[rockrr]

That doesn’t make any sense.

[soakncider]

if I was in his house as an intruder, I would not be justified in shooting back. if someone is on my house as an intruder, I will shoot them, justifiably, he may shoot back at me, but it wouldn’t be justified.

[soakncider]

see post #126 by Twinkie

[Moonman62]

Daddy & his people used to say that Lincoln didn’t have to
have that war. Slavery was on its way out before long
anyway.

...

Many felt that way about slavery including people in the South. However, secession was real, the taking of federal property by secessionists was real, and secessionists started the war.

[rockrr]

OK. I don’t know what relevance that has to this thread but whatever.

[soakncider]

your question was if someone shoots at you are you justified in shooting back

[soakncider]

Fort Sumter wasn’t federal property after SC took it back.

[rockrr]

From December 31, 1836 when the South Carolina legislature deeded the property in perpetuity to the federal government of the United States it has been a federal property. There was a short duration when it was illegally seized and occupied but that was rectified.

[CommerceComet]

I have heard the assertion many times that slavery was ending. I strongly doubt it would have ended any time soon without the war.

Did any of the southern states have active plans to end slavery when the war started? Did any of the southern states have active plans for what to do with the newly-liberated slaves? On the contrary, it seems that every action (including going to war with a better-resourced and stronger military power) the south took was to keep the institution of slavery as it currently existed. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if someone can provide some proof.

[rockrr]

I’ve asked the question many times over the years and have yet to get a response. I hope that you fare better than I did ;’}

Beyond a plan to invade and conquer several South American countries, relocating some of their captive labor force there I have seen no such plans.

[soakncider]

doesn’t matter...we are all slaves to the federal leviathan now anyway

[HandyDandy]

I pulled the jacket off of my copy to see what it looked like. It is different from yours. All navy blue with gold lettering on the spine. I can tell you that "the embossed eagle clutching 3 arrows in his right talon and a shield in his left" is the American Heritage insignia. It is (or was) on all of their publications.

[rockrr]

That seems like a rather grim way of looking at things. To view it in that limiting perspective we must admit that we have always been slaves in one form or another.