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To: DaveyB

I’m no expert, but as someone that continues to seek truth, I’m perplexed with a doctrine that will only provide you with access to Gods plan for you if you fall in line.

Can a Calvinist be forgiven for their failures?


14 posted on 07/18/2015 12:17:03 PM PDT by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: Zeneta
...a doctrine that will only provide you with access to Gods plan for you if you fall in line.

What you describe is works-righteousness not Calvinism or reformed doctrine.

In the reformed faith, Calvinism, one performs works of righteousness (falls in line)only after they have been effectually called by God and He has changed their heart; denoted by the terns born again or converted. Calvinism emphasizes that God effectually calls all His elect for the purpose of His own glory. Men freely choose, but they can only choose to serve God if He has enlightened them by the work of the Holy Spirit, and that the reprobate, those not chosen by God, will choose to not follow the general call to repentance. There is of course much more to the doctrine but that is an accurate summary.

19 posted on 07/18/2015 1:14:06 PM PDT by DaveyB (Live free or die!)
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To: Zeneta
Zeneta,

One thing that scientists of today and Calvinists seem to have in common is an antagonism towards philosophy.

Scientists believe that philosophy at best is a way station on the way towards a more complete knowledge of our universe which can only be achieved through the scientific method.

Calvinists believe that philosophy is sheer hubris on the part of finite humans to attempt to understand the workings of the mind of an infinite God.

Attempting to get a scientist or Calvinist to engage in a philosophical discussion with you on free will is pointless.

Scientists will refer you to the latest texts on neuroscience, expect you to read them thoroughly, and then limit your discussion to purely materialistic speculations.

Calvinists will expect you to limit your reading to the Bible and those approved interpreters thereof.

If you are truly interested in a more philosophical approach to this question then I think you should start here:

Foreknowledge and Free Will

This particular entry was written by a Christian philosopher . I don't know if she personally is a Calvinist or an Arminian or a Molinist, but she makes a good, though not compelling, philosophical case for the Calvinist position.

I think you will find a lot of other articles of interest at this site that discuss Free Will, Predestination, Materialism, etc. Very few entries claim to have solved any of these philosophical problems. However, they do help you to understand the terminology, the issues, the possible answers, and the overall complexity of the issues involved and why there haven't been any simple answers so far.

My own belief is that philosophy is still a very useful endeavor. I don't think that philosophy will ever be replaced by science. I don't think that it is a form of hubris for humans to use their God-given talents to try and better understand the human condition.

Daniel Dennett has written extensively on the concept of Free Will. He believes that there is still room in a purely materialistic universe for humans to have free will. His arguments have not been particularly convincing to either philosophers or scientists. He claims to be a philosopher, but I believe that like Patricia Churchland he is someone who started out as a philosopher, but now believes that science holds all the answers and that philosophy is just bunkum. Still, he might also be a good person to read to get an idea of the mind of the modern scientist.

If a scientist is being honest, he will have to tell you that he can't be absolutely certain of anything. Since the scientific method begins with empirical evidence, and all empirical evidence is limited, no absolute statements can be made. The best they can argue is that there is a really, really good chance that the models they've come up with can predict some very well-defined future events if every one of the important starting conditions is well-understood and controlled for.

Good luck with the Calvinists. There are certain things they know for sure, and other things they know are beyond all human understanding. And they also somehow know which things fall into which category.

23 posted on 07/18/2015 1:39:44 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Zeneta

>>I’m no expert, but as someone that continues to seek truth, I’m perplexed with a doctrine that will only provide you with access to Gods plan for you if you fall in line.

That is the polar opposite of Calvinism.


35 posted on 07/18/2015 3:19:59 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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