Posted on 07/11/2015 8:17:31 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
From the Washington Post, presidential announcement speech, June 16, 2015:
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs, They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
One of the first things that I look for when perusing through comments is to look for any hard data or empirical evidence that can either scuttle or bolster the contention that was made and is now being analyzed.
While the southern border of the United States certainly isn't being enforced as strictly as it could or should be, and violent people are certainly coming across the southern border into the United States, is Mexico being anthropormorphized here?
What is "Mexico"? The Mexican government?
If so, is the Mexican government literally rounding up bad civilians and forcing them to come to the U.S., and if so, is there any hard data to support this or must we resort to an Appeal to Ignorace, or in other words since we can't prove one way or the other, "Mexico" must be the ones sending them here?
Secondly, how many, empirically speaking, are raping women as they make their way here - be it from southern Mexico the interior of Mexico or from northern Mexico - but don't themselves come into the United States? How many women are raped by "coyotes" who themselves never actually enter the United States? What data do we have on this? Sure, there is data to support Mexican men having raped women at some point after they arrive in the United states, but what data has been posited that shows they raped women in Mexico or that they constitute the majority of illegal Mexican men coming into the United States?
Lastly, if, if he made any assumptions without data to support it, did he choose the right word by saying some? Should the word "most" have been used instead?
So, was he merely inartful with his choice of words, right on target - or something else?
What is your opinion on this?
He did no wrong. He said, in plain UN-PC words, the truth.
I’d say a tiny bit in-artful, but I think these times call for bluntness over artful.
Look at the picture of the Mexican cabinet posted elsewhere on FR and look at the pictures of the crowds of Mexicans crossing the border and in the ICE facilities. There is certainly a difference in appearance, as a minimum.
Thank God someone has finally broken through the Ministry Of Propaganda filter so that American citizens have a voice as to the future of their country.
65-70% of the citizens have been screaming to get the border secured andthe laws enforced.
They have been frustrated by one party that wants a new permanent majority and another that wants to keep flooding the country with cheap labor.
No one is representing the citizens.
Trump has moved into that vacuum
Do you believe that Trump was saying that the Mexican government is forcibly sending Mexicans, be it men or women, here into the United States?
Secondly, do you believe that Trump has data that shows that all of the women being raped as they make their way into the United States have been raped by Mexican men who themselves also came into the United States?
Do you believe that Trump should have said “most” are good people or was he correct in saying “some” are good people?
He’s just unable to speak coherently. Everyone knows what he means in the end but he sounds like a dunce.
All three.
I think its great that President Donald J. Trump has the know with all to speak the truth...
As for former pres Obama, well that’s another matter....
The FACTS back up Trump’s assertions. Put away the nit picking and false analyses intended to cast aspersions on a man who has the guts to tell it like it is. Telling it like it is used to be an American trait before the PC Police frightened so many thin skinned idiots. Mexico has never been a friend to America and has conspired in the past as it is doing now, to harm America. Ever hear of the Zimmerman telegram.......
Do you believe that truth is supported by data?
If so, do you believe that Trump believes that the Mexican government is forcibly sending Mexicans, be it men or women, into the United States when he said “When Mexico sends its people...”?
Secondly, should it be “some, I assume, are good people” or “most”?
Third, do you believe that Trump was saying that the Mexican men who rape women who are making their way here are also coming into the United States? If so, do you believe that Trump would have data to support this?
Fourth, what do you believe is the percentage of illegal Mexican men that are actually rapists, be it those who rape women and then those men come into the US illegally, or what percentage of Mexican men are in the U.S. and then rape women once or after they get here?
In-artful indeed!!!!. But thinking people should ask if the in-artful is never the less true.
The Mexican government hands out information anout how to cross the border.
The coyotes do cross deeply into the U.S.
Many, many women are raped in crossing. There are “rape trees” all along the border.
We have been watching this for decades.
The rest of the country is now hearing about it.
You are engaging in Ad Hominem by saying that I made a false analysis intended to cast an aspersion on Trump. I asked questions, I did not make declarative statements. Do you have a problem with that?
Like, “What is Mexico?” The Mexican government?
And one question after another after that...
Like, “How many, empirically speaking, are raping women as they are making their way here? How many are raped by “coyotes” who themselves never actually enter the United States. “What data has been posited [by anyone anywhere], that shows they raped women in Mexico or that they constitute the majority of illegal Mexican men coming into the United States.
And on and on.
You just have a problem with the questions that I asked because you don’t like the questions that I asked.
Once you used Ad Homs, is was all down hill with your assertions after that...
I personally think he spoke inartfully. That’s all.
Rape tress dont prove that those doing the raping came into the U.S.
Not all of them are bad, but the bad ones are getting all of the attention. As for the so called "good ones" they are doing little to nothing to stop them. Kind of reminds me of so called "Moderate Muslims"
If so, do you believe that Trump believes that the Mexican government is forcibly sending Mexicans, be it men or women, into the United States when he said “When Mexico sends its people...”?
History repeating itself, remember the "Mariel boatlift"?
Secondly, crossing deeply are ambiguous words? How far into the U.S.? Do they stay? Do they commit crimes once here? Are the majority of Mexican men “coyotes” What percentage of Mexican men who come here illegally have raped women in Mexico or after they got here?
Should Trump have used the words “most” or was he correct to say “some, I assume are good people”?
I personally think that if he hadn’t said “When Mexico sends its people” and had said that most illegals don’t rape and don’t commit crimes but we have got to seal the border nonetheless, that he wouldn’t be in the mess he is in now.
Liberals have been caught totally off guard by Trump. The people are not relying on the left to interpret what he is saying because the people see the results of what he is talking about all around them. However inartful, even inarticulate, Mr. Trump may be the people know the truth of which he speaks. The left so far has been unable to obfuscate and successfully lie. It's like liberals trying to convince the people by indignant and righteous insistence that the Sun is rising in the West and you hate Negroes and homosexuals if you don't believe it.
Just because there was a “Mariel boatlift” in the past is not empirical evidence for now. Do you believe that Trump has any data for right now?
Secondly, I was responding to you, not someone in a border state for your post #5.
Third, even if I did ask someone from a border state, that would only be anecdotal evidence and wouldn’t prove anything.
Finally, how do you know that many rapes haven’t been stopped by Mexican men intervening to stop other Mexican men who have tried to rape women? You don’t know one way or the other. How then can you assert that they are doing little or nothing to stop them?
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