Posted on 07/10/2015 4:33:00 AM PDT by knarf
Joe legal works in construction, has a Social Security number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose illegal also works in construction has no Social Security number and makes $15.00 per hour cash, under the table.
Ready?... now pay attention....
Jose illegal also works in construction has no Social Security number and makes $15.00 per hour cash, under the table.
Ready?... now pay attention....
Joe legal: $25.00 per hour × 40 hours = $1,000.00 per week or $52,000.00 per year. Now, take 31% away for State and Federal taxes. Joe legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose illegal: $15.00 an hour × 40 hours = $600.00 per week or $31,200.00 per year. Jose illegal pays no taxes. Jose illegal now has $31,200.00.
Joe legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe legal now has $24,031.00.
Jose illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the State and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe legal spends $500.00 per month for food or $6,000.00 per year. Joe legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe legal pays rent of 1,200.00 per month or $14,400.00 per year. Joe legal now has $9,631.00.
Jose illegal receives $500.00 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose illegal pays out that $500.00 per month or $6,000.00 per year. Jose illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe legal pays $200.00 per month or $2,400.00 per year for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. Joe legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance."... and still has $31,000.00.
Joe legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline.. etc.
Jose illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline and what he sends out of the country every month....
Joe legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe legal's and Jose illegal's children both attend the same elementary school.
Joe legal pays for his children's lunches while...
Jose illegal's children get a government-sponsored lunch.
Jose illegal's children have an after school ESL program.
Joe legal's children go home.
Now, when they reach college age...
Joe legal's kids may not get into a State school and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State schools through his taxes, while...
Jose illegal's kids go to the, 'head of the class' because they are a minority.
Joe legal and Jose illegal both benefit from the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not.
Do you get it, now?
If we vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens,... we are part of the problem.
Its way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
We need to keep this going -- we need to make changes ASAP!
What are you waiting for?...Pass it on!
Waiting for GOPe-robot to post a snopes reply so we know how superior illegals are.
Your idea is interesting but some of your assumptions are wrong - and I think you’re getting riled up over a few things that are not true. (And let me hasten to add, a lot of things that are true....)
A: If they work for a company of any size, or work for a company for any length of time, they will have taxes withheld in all likelihood. Companies, like construction, landscaping, janitorial, who have a payroll system, cannot really get away with under the table. Especially is most or all of their customers pay in check or credit card (meaning all commercial accounts).
Not saying it’s okay, just saying if we’re gonna discuss this issue, let’s get the facts right. No reason to get angry over something that isn’t happening. There’s plenty of legit stuff to get angry about.
B:A lot of Hispanic labor is legal, and they work for the same wage as the illegals as far as I can tell.
C: The hand out illegal community is largely NOT the working illegal community. Two different universes, both with a separate set of problems.
At Joe Legal’s level of income he will certainly get financial aid for his kid’s college unless he is clueless about the Financial Aid process.
Most of this is accurate but not all.
I'll give you the empirical points, but
The gist of the matter is
illegals are in no way a contributor to the fabric of Americanism
In my own life, while a free wheelin' hippie in those daze ... I knew and took advantage of free clinics, food stamps and learning to work the system and except for the hammer has come down on AMERICANS that work the system, it is wide open to the illegals and whatever drain I may have been in 1969/70 ... it's got to be quadTRINtified (of COURSE I just made that up, silly) these days.
Guess you missed the part where it says Joe Illegal.
I’ve written about this before but I’ll do so again here. A contractor won the low bid to remove and replace flooring at my defense plant. He showed up at the door with around fifteen illegal aliens. They had to produce an ID to gain access. The Florida Driver’s License is difficult to reproduce, but they all had an FDL with their picture and name on it. All other information, address, FDL number, birth date, etc. was identical. The guard said if it had just been one guy he’d have given out a badge, no problem. The contractor had to take them away and bring in American Citizens, who need to be paid legally and therefore, more. This was no small company. It wasn’t a lawn service or a maid service. I think the illegal problem is greater than most people know.
(No, my company did not report, to my knowledge. They’d probably fire or reprimand any employee who brought unwanted attention to them. You tell your manager, he tells his and so on and so forth. Somebody kills it along that path because if you call the company lawyer he’d be very angry you brought it to his attention.)
I don’t disagree with a single word of your last post - and you and I probably agree on almost all of the politics of this....certainly we do on the border, on the Chamber of Commerce, on voting, on hand outs, on e verify, etc.
We just have vastly different life experiences in this market.
I was simply offering my real world experience of hiring and firing in the labor markets for 23 years. My experience tells me that the vast majority are employed with normal looking paperwork and withholding. That means taxes are withheld and most contractors really have no way of telling who is legal and illegal. We hired a third party human resource firm, at quite an expense to us , for just this reason. And even they admitted they really couldn’t tell. It’s not that easy.
BTW, one reason Washington won’t do anything about this...and there are several reasons, but one is that they KNOW good and well that millions and millions of dollars come into the IRS from phony socials withholding every Friday afternoon. That’s one of the dirty little secrets.....
The other side of that coin is, for any contractor who gets paid by check or credit card (NO commercial accounts pay in cash and only a few home owners do) - they cannot afford to pay under the table really...because they’re going to get taxed on all that gross income, and if they can’t write off the payroll, which can only be done if the payroll is legit, then they can’t stay in business.
The short term day laborer picked up in the parking lot at Home Depot is only a tiny percentage of the total. Sure that’s low paid and under the table, but it’s a teeny universe, and seriously...those are not jobs you want to do anyway.
The difference with full time employees is not so much in the pay as it is with productivity. The American culture gets bored with mundane jobs quickly. Their culture does not seem to. There are mundane jobs that need to be done out there.
Again, just some thoughts from my 20 plus years doing this. On the philosophy, you and I have no disagreement.
As an asides;
After the Late sixties.early seventies hippie excursion into I-don't-know-where-land ... I was able to get a job almost anywhere in a factory almost anywhere by walking in on Thursday/Friday and starting Monday (Northeast .. Boston area).
As a boomer, I never had trouble earning money ... always had a job .;.. but I DID see the job market decline around others as factories closed and kids no longer pumped gas or soda jerked
I didn't realize until later in life that Norman Rockwell had been assassinated (figuratively) and America had been raped.
There’s anecdotes all over the spectrum......and if you’ll see my other post, you’ll see that my experience is over two decades and many thousands of applicants and many many hundreds of employees. I did not operate in Florida, and Florida and Texas and other states are probably not typical.
And I will say this...for one time jobs...like this flooring job....you are far more likely to see that. With on going contracts, like tract subdivisions, commercial landscaping or janitorial or maintenance contracts - things that are daily or weekly - and thus require long term employees - you see much less of it.
And in those situations, it’s often impossible for the contractor to know. Just sayin....
you obviously didn’t read my post, and jumped to some very wrong conclusions. If you want to talk about something specifically that I actually wrote, and not something in your imagination, I’ll be happy to answer, explain, defend, etc.
As I ponder this entire thread and commentary, it occurs to me that, the sixties and seventies, though in the beginning stages of decline, DID experience a lot of well paid jobs that, quite frankly did NOT include sweating in the hot sun for 10 plus hours at sub-standard (to us) wages and again quite frankly, if we DID know about such things (I didn't ... not for many years), we were glad to get a dozen tomatos for $.50 (or whatever)
I did well in the seventies and eighties ... very well
Thanks....like I said, on the philosophy, the ideology, the principles - there is practically no difference between us.
I see a lot of anger in this debate, and there certainly should be anger in this debate....but a lot of the anger is mis placed and based on assumptions that just are not reality. It’s wasted energy, and counter productive.
I only know that because I lived it, every day, building a company from no employees to well over a hundred, over twenty years.
This is THE BEST argument to support the Fair Tax. It removes ALL federal withholding taxes and places a sales tax... THAT EVERYBODY PAYS, on every purchase. Then EVERYBODY is sharing the same tax burden.
If you drill down to the core issue, you’ll find leftists supporting the 40+ MILLION ILLEGAL INVADERS to get 40+ MILLION more leftist voters.
That would provide a permanent leftist voting majority into perpetuity and forever “fundamentally change America into a permanent socialist/communist society where the Constitution becomes meaningless.
It’s all about power with leftists and their ability to control the wealth for their inner circle.
It’s not rocket science...
I spent much of that time as kind of a vagabond and traveled on my thumb and on bikes pretty much everywhere. When I found myself somewhere with a broke down bike and no funds or just no funds, I could always find a job doing something. I walked into Galveston in 1965 and got a job washing dishes for $39 a week. 10 days later I was at a different restaurant for $72. A week after that I was making $100 a week selling shoes at a Thom Mcan. It was kind of like that all over the south and west.
If you drill down to the core issue, you’ll find leftists supporting the 40+ MILLION ILLEGAL INVADERS…
BUMP!
It is possible for Joe illegal to do as the email says, but relegating all to be as him is the problem, as not all illegals are the same. Up in the NE where I am in a densely populated small city, i rarely meet Mexicans, which are the majority of Latino immigrants, and most are Central Americans and who work, at least most of the men. Plenty of parking during the day. As an aside, they are far more social and friendly than the Yuppies who live in the condos and think and vote liberal, and actually have more than 1.7 children rather than dogs. How many of these Latinos are legal I do not know, but they all should be. The Republicans should have worked long ago to educated them on the short term gain/long term loss of a welfare state
. You also you have this: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/16/Study-Finds-Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-118B-TaxesThe Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) said,
Undocumented immigrants contribute significantly to state and local taxes, collectively paying an estimated $11.84 billion in 2012.
The effective state and local tax rate for undocumented immigrants’ nationwide is about 8 percent.
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a conservative group opposed to amnesty, once estimated that the 2010 annual cost of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level was about $113 billion – nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level. The study noted that tax receipts from illegal immigrants “do not come close to the level of expenditures” by federal and state government on behalf of undocumented workers.
Jose illegal is technically not eligible for most of the benefits you list.
That may be poorly enforced, but it is the law.
Even many legal immigrants are not eligible for many of these programs.
http://nilc.org/overview-immeligfedprograms.html
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.