Posted on 05/22/2015 2:22:18 PM PDT by Morgana
Oh I’m not wailing about it, The man will have to bear his cross. Shame on him! So what of the victims? They have received help and couselling as needed. I work in a situation where I see abused women all the time. I am often heartbroken for them.
Now you need not get your “bloomers in a wad!”(as you told me the other day and I did take your advice) I’ll start advocating for his public dismemberment starting with his privates and working slowly backwards if it makes you feel any better! Some places in the world he would be dead already! Sad for the victims... yet even God hates the death of the wicked. You know what..we are all wicked. Let’s just spurn God’s grace and destroy ourselves...none of us deserve grace!
The Duggars are gone and are a national joke now and this young man’s sin has found him out. It was horrible about the girls involved but perhaps someday we’ll read about the man, despairing of life , having blown his brains out! Yeah, it’s sad all around. Catharine, if you are true to the sentiment you have expressed, then it is your sworn duty to write to this man, urging him to tie a mill stone around his neck and cast himself into the sea!
My question as well. Fits the democrat MO of eliminating any obstacle in their way by outing embarrassing information about an individual, or circumstances connected to anything or anyone, at the moment of some important usefullness to them. I have been curious from the first time I noticed this Dugger story about why there is the need to turn any poster who does not condemn the Dugger family along with the son, who at age 14 sexually imposed himself on his younger sisters, into a supporter of such behavior and the offender as well. IMO, the repeated condemnation of Josh Duggar for acts committed at age 14 ignores the life he has lived since that time as a productive member of society. Will there ever be redemption for him? And if there is such expressed sympathy for those he hurt, what is to be made of his own young children who will, and are, being forever hurt by this current national highlighting of admittedly serious offenses with family members. Where and what is the gain? Making ourselves feel morally superior because we do not offend in the same way? God help us all if we are to be forever locked in to the sins of our past. e
Of course we do! Without targets to direct our hatred towards, people here would fall asleep from boredom..........
Hatred foments anger which creates anxiety which causes the heart rate to rise and when the heart rate rises, ones cardiovascular system gets a boost. So, for the majority of the people here, they're benefiting from their pseudo hatred in that their cardiovascular systems are giving them the only exercise they ever get.........It's a good thing!
You have not expressed ANY sympathy for what these children have gone through in that house by being molested by Josh. And yes, HE SHOULD HAVE TO REGISTER AS A SEX OFFENDER. At the very least. Given that history, he shouldn’t even be allowed access to his own children. All I see from you is basically “woe is Josh”. This individual claims to be an upstanding christian and all of a sudden you are blinded. You shouldn’t be taken by fame so easily. Christ himself wants us to be aware of those proclaiming his word without looking at one’s actions.
Sure I have...the issue on everyone’s minds is what to do with the miscreant now?! You came in heavy on the judgment of Josh..you didn’t express much sympathy for the girls as well...just blathered on about what a horrible person Josh and his parents were. Physician heal thyself!
It’s a horrible situation all around. What is worse...like Tamar who’s rape by her brother has been memorialized for 3000 years...Josh’s victims will probably all be outed as well. That is the most horrible thing. Now the girls, even the younger ones not involved will have to deal with all the palin bashing like whispers and the snarky remarks about “biiiig brother and maybe even biiiiig daddy!” And remarks like...go live in “West Virginia and I’m surprise y’all got teeth” There!you wanted some words of sympathy for the victims...now you got it.
Now be a good feminist and write Josh telling him needs to tie a mill stone around his neck and cast himself into the sea. Tell him to ask his mother for the rope and his father for the mill stone. There...those are my words of support for the victims!
I don't think you're in any position to judge what might be "helpful" or not in getting those girls past their abuse at the hands of a greasy 79 year old pervert.
"Calling Gothard an abuser seems like a big stretch, though, based on the materials or random, unsubstantiated allegations."
If you go to recoveringgrace.org, you can find "Charlotte's story." She was one of the many girls who worked for Gothard (interesting that he never married), and she was extremely innocent and naive, as were all the girls who belonged to his cult.
He would pick her up for "Bible study", and eventually progressed to touching her breasts and rubbing his leg against hers. He paid her to buy push-up bras and wear them. Then he began feeling her up. When people became suspicious of all the time they were spending together, Gothard fired her.
Yeah. Abuse is a "big stretch." /S The 34 girls were probably all lying, right?
Keep in mind that Gothard had an earlier ministry, and was forced to step down from that one, too, for abuse allegations. Do you think having to do that twice is just a coincidence?
" Have you ever met him? Or are you basing this on what you read on a website posted by his opponents?"
Why would I need to meet him? His guilt is widely acknowledged, and not just by "his opponents", as you call the girls who were abused by that dried-up, dirty old sleazebag.
The question is why you're so deadset on refusing to believe the truth about him. Are you a member of his cult? Are you a friend or relative of his, or the Duggars?
Now you need not get your “bloomers in a wad!”(as you told me the other day and I did take your advice) I’ll start advocating for his public dismemberment starting with his privates and working slowly backwards if it makes you feel any better! Some places in the world he would be dead already! Sad for the victims... yet even God hates the death of the wicked. You know what..we are all wicked. Let’s just spurn God’s grace and destroy ourselves...none of us deserve grace!
The Duggars are gone and are a national joke now and this young man’s sin has found him out. It was horrible about the girls involved but perhaps someday we’ll read about the man, despairing of life , having blown his brains out! Yeah, it’s sad all around. Catharine, if you are true to the sentiment you have expressed, then it is your sworn duty to write to this man, urging him to tie a mill stone around his neck and cast himself into the sea!
Are you always this much of a shirt-rending drama queen or do you only get worked up when defending sex abusers?
Your post perfectly illustrates what I was saying earlier about you. It's more extensive crying and wailing over poor Josh Duggar, except for this:
"So what of the victims?"
Wow. Just wow.
I think a lot of soul-searching is in order before you attempt to do any more preaching.
This is what I have to say to you what I said to another poster...specifically about the victims!
(Sure I have(spoken for the victims)...the issue on everyone’s minds is what to do with the miscreant now?! You came in heavy on the judgment of Josh..you didn’t express much sympathy for the girls as well...just blathered on about what a horrible person Josh and his parents were. Physician heal thyself!
It’s a horrible situation all around. What is worse...like Tamar who’s rape by her brother has been memorialized for 3000 years...Josh’s victims will probably all be outed as well. That is the most horrible thing. Now the girls, even the younger ones not involved will have to deal with all the “palin bashing” like whispers and the snarky remarks about “biiiig brother and maybe even biiiiig daddy!” And remarks like...go live in “West Virginia and I’m surprised y’all got teeth” There!you wanted some words of sympathy for the victims...now you got it}
Now be a good feminist and write Josh telling him needs to tie a mill stone around his neck and cast himself into the sea. Tell him to ask his mother for the rope and his father for the mill stone. There...those are my words of support for the victims!
(Its bad for everybody and it is bad for people of faith...yet judgment starts first in the temple of God...perhaps this is the start of it!)
I mourn for them all,,,victims and the sinner! Judge your own soul if you will on this matter. He is getting what is coming to him, we don’t have to like it or be gleeful about it. My horror is for the victims because the whole family will suffer the public shame this boy has caused.
You are wincing because I have exposed some core judgmental hate from some folks on this thread. I hurt for them all!
You want me to be even more graphic in my expressions of sympathy for the girls...because in my 29 years as an RN and working in an ICU I can tell you some the more gruesome things they may go thru. A shattered loss of trust, behavioral issues, alcohol and drug abuse... borderline personality issues, paradoxical promiscuity...oh I can spell it out for you very graphically what some of these girls MIGHT be facing! The big issue will be a major blow to faith in God in their tender hearts....don’t think the adversary won’t try to exploit that.
Hey, maybe bringing back the public stocks might be a good thing... Josh and his parents can be tied to them and we can all pretend that we are righteous enough to toss the first rotten tomato!( we can let the Muslims cast the first stones!)
This is what I have to say to you what I said to another poster...specifically about the victims!
{(Sure I have(spoken for the victims)...the issue on everyone’s minds is what to do with the miscreant now?! You came in heavy on the judgment of Josh..you didn’t express much sympathy for the girls as well...just blathered on about what a horrible person Josh and his parents were. Physician heal thyself!
It’s a horrible situation all around. What is worse...like Tamar who’s rape by her brother has been memorialized for 3000 years...Josh’s victims will probably all be outed as well. That is the most horrible thing. Now the girls, even the younger ones not involved will have to deal with all the “palin bashing” like whispers and the snarky remarks about “biiiig brother and maybe even biiiiig daddy!” And remarks like...go live in “West Virginia and I’m surprised y’all got teeth” There!you wanted some words of sympathy for the victims...now you got it
Now be a good feminist and write Josh telling him needs to tie a mill stone around his neck and cast himself into the sea. Tell him to ask his mother for the rope and his father for the mill stone. There...those are my words of support for the victims!}
Its bad for everybody and it is bad for people of faith...yet judgment starts first in the temple of God...perhaps this is the start of it!
I mourn for them all,,,victims and the sinner! Judge your own soul if you will on this matter. He is getting what is coming to him, we don’t have to like it or be gleeful about it. My horror is for the victims because the whole family will suffer the public shame this boy has caused.
You are wincing because I have exposed some core judgmental hate from some folks on this thread. I hurt for the whole family!
You want me to be even more graphic in my expressions of sympathy for the girls...because in my 29 years as an RN and working in an ICU I can tell you some of the more gruesome things they may go thru. A shattered loss of trust, behavioral issues, alcohol and drug abuse... borderline personality issues, paradoxical promiscuity...oh I can spell it out for you very graphically what some of these girls MIGHT be facing! The big issue will be a major blow to faith in God in their tender hearts....don’t think the adversary won’t try to exploit that.
Hey, maybe bringing back the public stocks might be a good thing... Josh and his parents can be tied to them and we can all pretend that we are righteous enough to toss the first rotten tomato!( we can let the Muslims cast the first stones!)
“I don’t think you’re in any position to judge what might be ‘helpful; or not in getting those girls past their abuse at the hands of a greasy 79 year old pervert.”
I was commenting on materials which were supposed to speak on what the Bible has to say to those who have gone through sexual abuse. You are assuming I was saying how it might or might not help girls Gothard supposedly abused, but since I obviously did not accept that premise, it should be equally obvious that is not what I was referring to.
“He paid her to buy push-up bras and wear them. Then he began feeling her up. When people became suspicious of all the time they were spending together, Gothard fired her.”
I will admit that the accusation is troubling because it should be easily refuted by someone in his position because he should have been following a policy which all reputable ministers follow of not spending time alone with these girls. If he was never alone with them, then it could not have happened.
I did read a number of articles as you suggested, and it is hard not to think there is some truth to them. Gothard apparently owned up partially in this statement that also denies anything sexual happening: “This emphasis on outward appearance was also manifested by bringing selected young people to serve at the Headquarters and causing others to feel rejected and offended by my favoritism. My actions of holding of hands, hugs, and touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust. Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent.”
For someone who taught such high standards as to sexual purity, I find it inexcusable that he did not abstain from physical contact with these girls. It definitely casts a shadow.
“Are you a friend or relative of his, or the Duggars?”
I have never met the Duggars or watched their show, but I am familiar with who they are and their connection to Gothard.
I have met and talked with Gothard, and have been very impressed with what I have seen and heard from his ministry. I have seen people’s lives totally transformed for the better - leaving immorality, drugs, etc. That however will not excuse any behavior that was sexual to these girls. I hope and pray the truth does come out regardless of whether he is exposed or vindicated.
Wow, you are still here defending the pedophile/enablers. Don’t worry, you will have another freakshow family in the Touching Little Children channel.
No, just can’t let stupidity have the last word. Thanks.
Nice way for you to run away from the actual discussion without really having anything to say. Especially the part insinuating anyone who disagrees with you want shows promoting child abuse.
Sagar, you doth protest too much.
If Christ had encountered the Duggar boy on that same street that he encountered the prostitute...how would he have responded to him? I know we have Christ speaking of folks who should have better thrown themselves into the sea if they had hurt any of the little ones...but he spoke this in relation to folks who might hinder children to come faith in him(suffer the little children to come unto me for of such is the kingdom of heaven). Pedophiles and child rapists might be such a category if what they did to children hindered their coming to faith in Jesus!
There are some women freepers who have been attacked when younger and some who may have had past spouses who abused their kids or fathers who may have who may have molested them. Parents, especially mothers are going to be particularly sensitive. Some of the comments are quasi antichristian, attacking the Duggar’s faith and direct character...some from folks I’m quite surprised to see them do!(some I recognize from a few Catholic threads) I felt very strongly to at least raise a rather strong point of order with a few. I have a daughter who was raped by someone she knew and was she quite shattered by it in 2009. We’ve never had a chance to get justice because she would only speak of it to counselors. So I say this as an acknowledgment of the Victims’ feelings and of their confusion, sense of loss and shame. Now the victims and the younger Duggers who weren’t involved are going to hear the jibes and the nasty jokes from the pundits. They may lose friends. Josh’s life is destroyed and I fear for him if he has no deep root in his faith. God is really going to have to open a path for him because his previous life is over, with nothing but the cackles of the enemies of the faith tearing at the Duggars and American Christians in general.
I plan to double down though when I hear of attacks , especially from Christians who should know better. We don’t know everything that was done. As I said..why is this story breaking now? Who broke it and why?
“Wow, you are still here defending the pedophile/enablers. Don’t worry, you will have another freakshow family in the Touching Little Children channel.”
What say you of Christ, has he come in the flesh or not?
If you say yes, then act like it for once!
Still, I go back to - what would be the reaction if a stranger did this, multiple times, to these little girls? Say a neighbor boy, or a friend of a Duggar kid? That would have probably been reported to protect the girls and seek genuine counseling for the boy. Why should the brother not undergo the same scrutiny we would expect of a non-relative? Sadly, the judge just now destroyed the police record for the sake of the victims. Too late, once on the Internet, always on the Internet. I think the Duggars will eventually get past this. Maybe a little much hubris was displayed on the part of some of them. Maybe Josh should have stuck with selling cars...
Also of note - according to the police report, not one, but two attorneys engaged by Jim Bob on the case declined to be the attorney of record.
This person could have gone to the state police or the state attorney if the local officials couldn’t be trusted. Heck, the Child protective Nazi’s just love cases like this, anything to bust Christians including homeschoolers down(most cps’s I think try to do a good job but they get so caught up that they lose perspective sometimes) So the Oprah thingy is what really has me curious.
The judge destroying the records thing won’t matter, the incest motif will still haunt the victims if they were of the immediate family, and will haunt the innocents of the family who may not have been victims. The young man in question, even if he has been leading a God fearing exemplary life since he was 14 has now been destroyed. The “Phil Mahr” type incest and anti Christian jokes will be just horrible and the snickers and the looks anyone with the name of Duggar are going to get will be hurtful and unfair. That is why God condemns gossip mongers...they destroy the innocent with their tongues!(we see what bearers of false witness and gossips can do to vulnerable young girls who after being vilified on Face book, go and kill themselves...so we know the power of gossip and why God hates it!) I am sad and over come for this family. It may have been time to leave the limelight, for just the sake of humility and to be a quiet witness for God...but not like this!
Now I’m a bit unclear...(not being negative or snarky) could you clarify your opinion as to the implications as to why the attorneys in question declined to be the attorneys of record? Do you think they saw the case as being potentially a downer to their reputations if they took the case? Could their records have been supoena’ed in some future case if one or the other had been the “attorney of record”?
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