Posted on 05/05/2015 6:10:22 PM PDT by EveningStar
I have to disagree. God does not tempt nor did he intend to set man up to fail!(However the Bible does say God makes the evil and the good(Isaiah 45:7). That is what you are saying. God lives across time and even as he created life and had to deal with Satan’s rebellion, he was already acting to provide a savior to restore those who would worship him in spirit and in truth. We have free will but live in a temporal bubble where time passes and matter eventually will decay until God remakes it.
He’s already remade it...he’s been there and gone already!! What is going on now is the “mop up action”. God seeks a people who will worship God in Spirit and in truth. THAT WAS ALWAYS HIS INTENT! He has created “sons of God and it doesn’t yet appear what we shall be but we know that when he shall appear, we will be like HIM for we shall see him as he is!{1 JOhn 3:2) That is what he intended for us from the beginning and no power of Satan will keep God from bringing that about. The heel was bruised...but now watch the heel crush the head of the serpent!!
Satan should not have bothered to mess with us, for the Word made flesh entered our universe to fight Satan on his ground and it was so much more worse for Satan as a result! The Living Word made flesh...how the devils must have screamed in rage! They never saw it coming, the crucifiction(check)...and to have the Word made flesh rise from the grave(mate!)...a multimegaton spiritual detonation!
Satan still plots....but alas for him and wonderful for the saved..The Word made Flesh is coming again, this time to crush the head of the Serpent for good!
Just a little word of encouragement: “when he shall appear, we will be like HIM for we shall see him as he is!” Since it takes a four dimensional being to see a four dimensional being, imagine what dimensional being it will take to see a six or eight or ten dimensional being! When Jesus told Philip that all he could see of The Father was what he could see in Him, for He is in the Father and The Father is in Him. Philip was a 4D being, so that was the limit of what he could see of The One there before him.
We’ll be fitted with incorruptible bodies that can’t sin and thus can interact with the Father the same way the Son does. Scripture says we are “already seated with him in the Heavenlies”, as though the thing has already been done and settled. It’s all about God’s “Now” time, though we have to live our earthly lives for a short while longer!!
There may have been similar DNA beings around Eden, but there really was an Eden and an Adam and Eve, and the fall. Folksargue that Adam or his sons could not have sired children with such surrounding beings, but the fallen angels sired the NEPHILIM WITH THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN. The unique thing about the descendants of Adam is having a spirit. Humanoids surrounding the Garden likely did not have a spirit since God breathed Adam's into him.
I think some things can’t be answered for us right now. Even Jesus said to his disciples...”I have other things to tell you but they are too hard for you right now.” It can sound like a cop out to say “well God might not be ready for us to know that yet, but it is true. John was not allowed in Revelation to write down what “the thunders had uttered”. John could obviously handle it but the rest of us...probably not! Perhaps even in Heaven, there might not be things we can ever be privy too. We are created beings, created by him to be a royal priesthood after the order of Melchizidek as is Jesus Christ now! We will never understand the full nature of the UNCREATED GOD being just created beings ourselves. Living up to being the person God always dreamed each of us could be is challenge enough and may present growth issues in the Father’s House as well. God is fully God...Seven_O will have the full opportunity to be Fully Seven_0 and all that will mean to him(and God) and so will mdmathis6!
Let James 1:13 be my justification in saying God doesn’t tempt men at least to sin(though we know he can stir the evil hearts of kings to create situations that bring a nation to ruin because is seeking to punish the peoples of the nation for their sins. See Kings and Chronicles about David’s sinful call for a national census and why God let the plagues fall on Israel). James 1:13”13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone!
James 1:13 in context with surrounding verses that speak of some of the things you spoke of in your posting.”12Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Some so called “abductees” claim that when they asked “why they were taken” the so called “aliens stated” Each human seems to have an “animus” that is unique to even what they had studied “in the universe” and they were trying to get a handle as to what that was. Of course that seems to have been one of the “kinder alien species”. Other abductees seem to have sensed almost a sarcastic malevolence...noting that they were being refered to by these creatures as “containers”. Most of these “abductions” were most certainly demonic...especially the ones referring to humans spitefully as “containers”...containers for what...possible possession perhaps?
The “animus” studiers seemed to be most kinder, and mostly curious. It might be possible in the universe that some intelligent species don’t have the same sense of Eternity that God “has put into our fore-heads”, and God deals with them differently. It doesn’t matter though...Christ died for our sins and we have to worry about our souls before God ...not what God might have done about some other intelligent life-forms.
Most of these UFO experiences I believe to be demonic or related to the fights we all have with the “princes and powers of the air!” Whether or not God has allowed some curious space faring races to nose around a bit(before being warned off or eventually will be warned off as the hammer starts to fall on Earth)... is not our concern. Kissing the Son(as in Psalm 2)”before he has begun to get just a little angry” is our main concern!
Well, John writes in Revelation there are 7 churches. Only two are found without doctrinal error. John does not label these churches by denomination but by the location wherein they existed when he penned the book and their doctrines. I can find a mixture of the doctrines given, leavened in all modern denominations.
BTW, Paul's consciousness is with The Lord, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, not rotting in some grave. The consciousness is not confined to the body, it merely uses it to fashion a basis for reality. Even so them also who sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him and the dead in Christ shall rise first. That is Paul getting his glorified body. So why do you ask why he was not raptured nearly 2000 years ago?
Paul was elected to pen the majority of the New Testament. He to me represents what the words 'elect', 'chosen before the casting down/overthrow' already justified and chosen to fulfill a particular duty. Mary also was where she was suppose to be when she was suppose to be. So what was Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, duty? Paul of all the New Testament writers had the most scholarly knowledge of the Hebrew Bible. Yet it took a direct visit to get his attention that a prophecy had been fulfilled.
I have not been given or charged with the knowledge of the individuals that have already been 'chosen', 'elected', or 'chosen before the casting down/overthrow, to fulfill 'end times' prophecy. But I have no doubt they will be exactly where God intends for them to be to do their duty when God decides the time is right. And no I do not call or consider myself in the same calling of Paul.
But what I can do is read, pray for understanding of what is Written to escape that hour of temptation. Because the tempter is none other than the devil dressed up in sheep's clothing.
And Paul's flesh had to die to get that 'glorified' body, so this makes the 'rapture' a mass death, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. The only place that is even semi-operational to sustain flesh requires man-made trips to restock. And if what the raptors claim is going to be going on here on earth is taking place the last thing that is going to be on the agenda is restocking sky-lab.
Why was Paul not raptured out or any number of those that loved God? Why are some so special they are treated fairer than even Christ? I do not get this mentality. Followers of Christ and God did not fair well in this earth age why should some get special treatment.
You ask questions that indicate a shallow understanding of some passages of scripture. From whence arises this 'fairer than' dissonance? The issue of Rapturing His Body out of this planet demise is not an either or, nor is it to be twisted into some fairness doctrine. You do remember the story Jesus told about hiring workers in the vineyard and the ones hired within an hour of days end received the same wage that the one working all day received, right? Fairness doctrine is a sign of dissonance in the heart.
My question may well be shallow, but it is a valid question. The Creator is the absolute personification of 'fairness'. He knows the mind of His children and both sides of every story. When hard times roll around I generally hear, what kind of God lets bad stuff happen. And then there are some that claim their special status protects them from what should be a no brainer, having an preemptive early exit from the so call bad stuff.
Liberalism is the refusal to take responsibility for ones own actions. The liberal mind suffers from varying degrees of narcissism. We are told by examples of some of the children that have passed through this flesh journey of what pleases the Creator and what He hates.
Christ said in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 that 'war and rumors of war was NOT the end'. The opposite of war and rumors of war is 'Peace, peace peace'. And Christ did say before any of the New Testament was penned to take heed behold I have foretold you all things.
Jeremiah 6 does a good job in describing the coming 'revival'. Christ even quoted Jeremiah 6:11 Is this house, which is called by My name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
Throw out the doctrine of imminence and you get the sort of doubting brimming over in your questions. There is absolutely a pause between Daniel's sixty-nine week and the seventieth week. I can prove it with the Bible, yet I sense that such proof is not going to fit in the 'fairness doctrine' churning in your heart. Your post is self-contradictory. On the one hand you complain 'why was Paul raptured out?' Yet in another sentence you write, 'God is able to protect those that love and follow His commandments without having to rapture them out.' The rapture is less about rescue and more about completion. Only God knows when the last soul will accept Christ as persona savior on faith not fear. At that moment God will bring them also who sleep in Jesus and give them glorified bodies and change we who are alive to match those bodies and gather us in the clouds to meet the Bridegroom in the Air.
Christ said Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Christ quoted Daniel 12:1, so obviously Christ was aware of Daniel's weeks prophecy.
Christ changed the 'time' in Matthew 24:22 AND except those days (of Daniel) be shortened, there should NO flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Is not salvation offered to us walking in flesh? We already have Christ saying that 'war and rumors of war is not the end, so it's not war Christ is warning us that is coming. The absence of war means there is no reason for flying out protection. Christ also said that all but the 'elect' would be deceived.
Paul wrote that Christ came in the volume of the Book not a few selected misread, and inflated verses of a subject not even being discussed. The subject was 'where are the dead', not buy a ticket to catch the first UFO out of here.
Wonder not that some mysteries are kept until the time is at hand. For centuries people doubted the Bible, doubting that Daniel was even a real person or that Belshazzar ruled in Babylon. They doubted the Bible on nothing more than the fact that there was not a state of Israel, no nation with national boundaries called Israel, a Jewish state. Then some of these same doubters, these doctrinaires, doubted the Bible based upon Israel not possessing Jerusalem. Well, the Arabs opened up a war in 1967 that resulted in Israel possessing control of Jerusalem for the first time since 1517 when the Ottoman Turks took control over Jerusalem. If you can see clearly what the Church is [HINT: the body of Christ] then you ought not doubt that He will come and get His body as the Church when His Father's trigger point is reached, without any foolishness of fairness doctrine. If you search for the 'Truth' He is always at the door and you need only open to Him. Never doubt that God will bring the Body of Christ that is the Church to the Father's House where Jesus told us are 'many mansions'. You can believe that to be at the end of the tribulation (as in slap the bride around then invite her to go to snack lunch) or you can believe it is mid way in the seventieth week of Daniel (as in watch the bride get mugged then when she's sufficiently mugged invite her on a dinner date). Or you can believe what the scriptures reveal about God snatching away the Bride of Christ/The body of Christ before he allows an evil presence to walk the earth and deceive so many into perdition. I prefer to believe God at His word, even though He kept that mystery to Himself for nearly 2000 years now.
Christ told us what the deception is, and shortened Daniel's weeks for the elect's sake. There is no need to have mass death to escape temptation.
The 'law' of sin and death required the law breaker to sacrifice living creatures for the remission of sin. Christ became the perfect One for all time blood sacrifice, also called 'blood ordinances'. It is indeed great liberty to have direct access to the Heavenly Father in Christ without the required blood sacrifice. None of this changes the fact that the Ten Commandments are still in effect.
Sabbath means 'rest' and it is in Christ we rest everyday not just Saturday or Sunday. Christians do not lie, cheat, steal, covet, murder, or have other gods, idols. There does seem to be a whole lot of acceptable adultery/idolatry. Yes, we all are sinners because we are flesh. But to claim Christ erased these laws and Christians are free to be lawless is, a road map to, well you know where the bad people get sent.
There is only ONE Church, the Bride of Christ, The Body of Christ. The seven bodies of believers, seven ekklesia, are addressed by the Lord, through John's vision, to note the state of the group in a particular gathering, and broadly, to any body of believers in any age or location. The Hallmark of THE CHURCH, The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ, is the presence of the Holy Spirit as the earnest of an inheritance WITHIN THE individual BELIEVER.
Ephesians 5:29 - 322For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Corinthians 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
And lest you still think it is by all that you can do to keep this Grace given by God into your self, be it known that this earnest of your inheritance is in His power of His Promise, as the transaction was entered into by Him first in paying the price for your full redemption:
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
In the ancient market place, a person came to purchase a parcel of grain. The one offering the grain would accept payment for the grain and give the purchaser an earnest (a small example portion) in the foprm of a contract or small amount of the grain purchased and this would be the promise of the grain seller to the grain purchaser that a full purchase would be given on completion of the contract. On the Cross, Jesus said 'It is finished'. He paid the purchase price for all humankind. He holds the full inheritance by His power, the full contracted amount is in His hand, and it is by His Promise to deliver that you receive His Grace, NOT BY WORKS regardless of how fantastic you may believe your works are.
Jesus purchased your Salvation, The Father holds the full inheritance, and it is by His Promise power that this full amount will be given, because it is by His Grace to any place their faith in Him. You might even say the dowery has been paid in full, so anytime the Bridegroom wants to come and get that which has already been purchased, it is His to receive, by His power, as held in His Father's hand for the day of reckoning for the contract He wrote and He purchased. By this you KNOW it is to His Glory, not to any imagined glory you could imagine from your efforts.
Please don’t ping for threads I am not involved in. Some of actually have a life off of FR.
Just a thought, but try reading the post anyway, since you’re in touch with it now.
Well done!
That’s a keeper! Already printed it out to carry along ...
Finally, the passage scene in Luke 21 is a gathering of believers OF THE JEWS spoke to in the Temple. After Jesus leaves the Temple teaching session, he goes to the mount of Olives and there gives the scene with only Peter, James, and John, and Andrew, in which He addresses their specific query as to the last days and when will those happen.
The Luke 21 passage was so real to those present that when Vespasian left Titus in charge of the Roman legions encircling Jerusalem so he, Vespasian, could return to Rome and settle the Caesar issues, that nine month pause these believers saw as the prophecy Jesus gave to them at the beginning of the Luke 21 discourse, and they fled Jerusalem and were saved form the horrors that followed when Titus was sent command to destroy the rebellion and the temple was burned tot he ground leaving not one stone upon the other.
This escaping the Roman holocaust might even be seen as a foreshadowing of the escape the Rapture accomplishes fro believers. The pause between Daniel's sixty-ninth week and the seventieth week last at least more than 37 years because Jesus was crucified in 33AD, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD, and yet the abomination of desolation Jesus spoke of in the Olivet discourse (Matt24 and Mark 13) did not happen. So the Temple will have to be rebuilt fro this aspect of Jesus prophecy to occur, meaning the pause between the weeks in Daniel has lasted at least since 33AD to the present.
I have repeatedly answered your question. You just do not like the answer I give. I have never studied Mormon Doctrine. As I stated earlier I am a 70's rapture survivor.
There is only ONE Church, the Bride of Christ, The Body of Christ. The seven bodies of believers, seven ekklesia, are addressed by the Lord, through John's vision, to note the state of the group in a particular gathering, and broadly, to any body of believers in any age or location. The Hallmark of THE CHURCH, The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ, is the presence of the Holy Spirit as the earnest of an inheritance WITHIN THE individual BELIEVER.
You kinda in a round about way say what I said. None of the churches either individually or all were promised a fly away.
Ephesians 5:29 - 32 2For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Paul also said IICorinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent (devil) beguiled Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preachet another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.......
Wonder why Paul left out that 'born again' doctrine?
Romans 16:25 Now to Him That is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the (UH OH) 'prophets', according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Does your church consider the book of Hebrews part of the doctrine?
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. And lest you still think it is by all that you can do to keep this Grace given by God into your self, be it known that this earnest of your inheritance is in His power of His Promise, as the transaction was entered into by Him first in paying the price for your full redemption: Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. In the ancient market place, a person came to purchase a parcel of grain. The one offering the grain would accept payment for the grain and give the purchaser an earnest (a small example portion) in the foprm of a contract or small amount of the grain purchased and this would be the promise of the grain seller to the grain purchaser that a full purchase would be given on completion of the contract. On the Cross, Jesus said 'It is finished'. He paid the purchase price for all humankind. He holds the full inheritance by His power, the full contracted amount is in His hand, and it is by His Promise to deliver that you receive His Grace, NOT BY WORKS regardless of how fantastic you may believe your works are. Jesus purchased your Salvation, The Father holds the full inheritance, and it is by His Promise power that this full amount will be given, because it is by His Grace to any place their faith in Him. You might even say the dowery has been paid in full, so anytime the Bridegroom wants to come and get that which has already been purchased, it is His to receive, by His power, as held in His Father's hand for the day of reckoning for the contract He wrote and He purchased. By this you KNOW it is to His Glory, not to any imagined glory you could imagine from your efforts.
The Holy Spirit is the WORD, our Comforter. The means to measure which Spirit is in us is the Volume of the Book.
I am lost by this Christ 'purchasing' my Salvation. Actually Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
I am not finding this to read as a financial transaction, given all belongs to the Creator. Why would He need to buy and sell anything?
OK
I sense you are not genuine. Is that a defensive mechanism? Many are called but few are chosen. Faithful is he that calleth you for he shall also do it. Of the many called, why so few chosen? ... Because so few will let Him do it! Now you may ask "do what"? The answer is so simple men have been manufacturing religious system for literally millennia to avoid 'it'. Usually the opposition plays dumb to avoid honesty. What will He do?... Be God in you. Being God in you is THE earnest of your inheritance, the spark of The Holy Spirit in you. Pride resists this relinquishing of the will, often deceitfully pleading ignorance.
Thank you so very much for your testimony and those beautiful Scriptures, dear brother in Christ!
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