Posted on 03/23/2015 2:29:38 AM PDT by rickmichaels
Around 7 p.m. on Friday, Feb. 13, about two dozen high-level U.S. diplomats, politicians and four-star generals held a discussion in a briefing room on the sixth floor of the luxury Bayerischer Hof hotel in Munich. Their frank comments behind a sound-proof door were leaked, perhaps to German intelligence but certainly to the German newspapers Bild and Der Spiegel, which published reports of the discussions.
They reveal a ham-handed U.S. diplomacy in Europe that has raised consternation and revulsion against the administration of President Barack Obama and by extension against NATO.
Although not directly involved, Canadians can learn from the revelations. Canada is a middle-power within NATO and must decide how much to contribute to NATO's future operations in Ukraine. Like Germany, Canadians fear entrapment in a U.S.-led war at the same time as we fear abandonment by NATO's reputed leader.
While German Chancellor Angela Merkel was earning public kudos for flying with French President Francois Hollande to Moscow to meet President Vladimir Putin in an effort to broker a ceasefire in Ukraine, Obama's top diplomat for Europe, Victoria Nuland, dismisses it in the closed-door meeting as "Merkel's Moscow thing" and "Merkel's Moscow junk."
Nuland, the U.S. assistant secretary of state who speaks fluent Russian, goes on to criticize Germany, saying, "They're afraid of damage to their economy, counter-sanctions from Russia."
Note that the quote above and ones that follow, along with descriptions of the tone of the meeting and emotions ascribed to some of those inside, are from widely used English translations of original translations to German for use by the two German newspapers.
One U.S. politician says, "It's painful to see that our NATO partners are getting cold feet."
A U.S. senator calls German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen "defeatist" because she no longer believes in a Kiev victory. According to German reports, the phrase "German defeatist" is often heard in the room.
Another U.S. official speaks about the Europeans' "Moscow bulls---."
An angry U.S. Sen. John McCain, who was in the meeting, says: "History shows us that dictators always take more, whenever you let them. They can't be brought back from their brutal behaviour when you fly to Moscow to them, just like someone once flew to this city."
Both newspapers reported Nuland, a former security adviser to U.S. vice-president Dick Cheney, seemed to have been the one who set the tone, saying, "We can fight against the Europeans, we can fight with rhetoric against them."
Several U.S. politicians seemed hesitant supplying Kiev weapons. One asks whether it is only a tactic to pressure on Putin.
"No, it's not a tactic to push the Europeans," answers Nuland. "We're not going to send any four divisions into Ukraine, as the Europeans fear. It's only a relatively moderate delivery of anti-tank weapons."
"But what will we tell the Europeans if we really decide on delivering weapons?" a congressman asks
NATO commander Gen. Philip Breedlove: "We're not on a footing to deliver so many weapons they could defeat Russia. That's not our goal. But we have to try to raise the battlefield cost for Putin, to slow down the whole problem, so sanctions and other measures can take hold."
Breedlove's shocking attitude to collateral damage – he refers to it as a "battlefield cost" – has been carefully translated into German and then back again into English.
Nuland tells them: "I'd strongly urge you to use the phrase 'defensive systems' that we would deliver to oppose Putin's 'offensive systems.' "
Nikita Khrushchev and Fidel Castro referred to the tactical nuclear weapons secretly deployed in Cuba in the early 1960s as "defensive," not "offensive" weapons. It looks like Nuland has learned eerily similar lessons about how the U.S. should frame its arming of Ukraine, a non-NATO member.
Typical of groupthink, there is no doubt in Breedlove's mind about what a U.S. arms delivery to Ukraine should look like: "Russian artillery is by far what kills most Ukrainian soldiers, so a system is needed that can localize the source of fire and repress it. Ukrainian communications are disrupted or completely swamped, so they need uninterceptible communications gear. Then I won't talk about any anti-tank rockets, but we are seeing massive supply convoys from Russia into Ukraine. The Ukrainians need the capability to shut off this transport. And then I would add some small tactical drones."
Improving communications and deploying military drones are the new mantras of modern warfare. Americans are worried about a cyberwarfare attack by Russia against Ukraine. One option would be to deliver weapons to Ukraine and ask the NATO allies to provide "defensive" drones for Ukraine as part of their NATO commitment.
Indeed, drones would be cheaper for Canada to contribute than training Ukrainian soldiers or even UN peacekeepers – and contribute to the hub of defence manufacturing in the London-Waterloo region.
But how might Russians react to the prospect of drones flying over disputed Ukrainian territory? Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov was shot as he walked across a bridge near the Kremlin. Russian nationalists are bound to feel even more encircled and paranoid in days to come.
In February, 2014, another leaked "f--- the EU" slur by Nuland in a telephone conversation was condemned by Merkel as "completely unacceptable."
Der Spiegel has labelled Nuland "America's riot diplomat," meaning she is supposed to solve the crisis of Ukraine and relations with Russia but she herself has become the problem.
Obama needs a wiser diplomatic team – more like John F. Kennedy's executive committee and less prone to misleading esprit de corps and dangerous groupthink.
Establishment Hacks that Eisenhower warned us about;
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
Obama is however, the worst President in US history and he has shot down 57 friendly fighters, we call him an A**.
Obama is at war indeed, but at war with his own country and most of our allies. This all looks like a so-called leader pointing a revolver to his head and warning us all to stand back before he kills himself and the Republic for which he sits...
Democrats often pine for better times when they still had a few folks on the inside with personal credibility. The crop in power now have mostly all abondoned any character in favor of expediency. I have said it before, but they expect to be treated as if they have credibility and character because of the positions they hold. You can see thier operatives on the various pundit shows often demanding these awful people be respected and honored. But we see the institutional reserve beginning to break down now at true crisis levels.
Assuming the story is true as presented there are so many things wrong I’d have to diagram a response. But a shoot from the hip says, why did they hold a meeting in an unsecure location? Note to diplomats. Look up diplomacy. One definition is getting agreement for a course of action from people who disagree with you. The very worst thing you can do is to ever show your own emotional hole cards.
Also, what was the objective of the meeting? Were the right people there to achieve that objective? Senators, for example, write laws. They should have nothing to do with diplomacy.
Everything that is described in the article is crazy.
Um, whut ? Those turkeys almost got us into WW3 on JFK's watch (nevermind laying the groundwork for a clusterf**k on Vietnam).
This is just madness. Obama is managing to destroy relations with BOTH Russia, as well as those who oppose Russia
obammy and company resemble the Keystone cops.
What a pathetic joke this bumbling fool is.
“One definition is getting agreement for a course of action from people who disagree with you. The very worst thing you can do is to ever show your own emotional hole cards.”
Well look no further than Carl von Clausewitz, 1780 – 1831. In his treatment on war he had this to say:
Paraphrased — War is diplomacy by another means. While the actual quote is: War is the continuation of politics by other means.
He’s established western thinking and morals on war — which we experience in Hollywood more than in the real world, but nonetheless it’s why the west doesn’t go Medieval on the Muslims.
The Muslims BTW haven’t read Clausewitz so are bound by no such western honor code.
Around 7 p.m. on Friday, Feb. 13, about two dozen high-level U.S. diplomats, politicians and four-star generals held a discussion in a briefing room on the sixth floor of the luxury Bayerischer Hof hotel in Munich. Their frank comments behind a sound-proof door were leaked, perhaps to German intelligence but certainly to the German newspapers Bild and Der Spiegel, which published reports of the discussions. They reveal a ham-handed U.S. diplomacy in Europe that has raised consternation and revulsion against the administration of President Barack Obama and by extension against NATO.And yet, there will be those carrying water on this for Obama, Kerry, Jarrett, etc.
“You can see thier operatives on the various pundit shows often demanding these awful people be respected and honored”
Agreed totally, and they even have Valerie Jarrett on “The Good Wife” or Obama on the late night talk shows to give them that sort of image or facade that unfortunately a lot of average people continue to buy.
I wondered what happened to Nuland, she got a lot of face time at State during Bush’s administration. She started out being the face of State under Odingo but seems to me got caught up in one of Odingo’s foreign scandle cover ups and was gone from DC shortly after.
This is what happens when 1960’s Marxist radicals who spent the majority of their rich daddy’s money on drugs and not going to class are left to rule the country they almost destroyed 45 years ago.
They are finishing the job they started.
I can easily hit *this* one out of the park.Canadians can learn (if they haven't already) that NATO's backbone is led by a community organizer who is,among other things on record as having promised "flexibility" to the former KGB officer behind MH 17 and who,just the other day,threatened to nuke Danish naval vessels.
Nuland is married to Robert Kagan, a “neoconservative writer” who often argues for America to not abandon its role as sole superpower, and that a strong US is good for world democracy. During the Reagan years, he was a speechwriter for George Schultz, foreign policy advisor for Jack Kemp, and served in the State Department Bureau of Inter-American Affairs... but he describes himself as a liberal and a progressive these days (4-26-08, Guardian article). Interesting.
The Senate has to confirm treaties and appointments - so yes, the Senate has a lot to do with diplomacy.
Ironically, this meeting was held on the sidelines of the 2015 Munich Security Conference at the Hotel Bayerischer Hof in February.
Pretty clearly one or more foreign intelligence agencies were eves-dropping on the meeting and leaked the conversation to German media.
This is a strange article. When Gen. Breedlove says that ‘relatively moderate delivery of anti-tank weapons’ aims to ‘raise the battlefield cost for Putin, to slow down the whole problem’ the author acts hysterical saying ‘Breedlove’s shocking attitude to collateral damage - he refers to it as a “battlefield cost”’ and in the next paragraph compares anti tank missiles to nuclear weapons in Cuba.
I don’t see the big danger for collateral damage from anti-tank missiles and I don’t think she is writing in good faith when comparing atgm-s to nukes in Cuba.
They’re right... the EU was gutless, and will encourage Putin to go further.
The writer’s a leftwing loon.
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