Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

How the Romans Proceeded in Waging War
WikiSource ^ | Circa 1517 | Niccolo' Machiavelli

Posted on 03/15/2015 3:30:15 PM PDT by Jacquerie

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-45 last
To: Rockingham

Nowhere have I claimed that human right, including those for women, are not reforms. Just that quite a large number of people around the world disagree.

You are falling into the trap that is almost universal, have to struggle against it myself. Here’s an example: “human rights, democracy, and fair treatment of women to be reforms ... tend to make societies that embrace them less violent and less aggressive.”

The assumption here is that everyone will agree with us that less violence and aggression is a good thing. Well, they don’t. In militaristic societies, or those based on the notion of the obligation to wage eternal war on the rest of the world until they submit, why would they view less violence or aggression as good things? Those are our values, not theirs.

Another example: Expose a 17th century Euro aristo to the notion that “all men are created equal.” He would be appalled. What, he’s the equal of his own serfs? Don’t be ridiculous. When the Founders made this statement, they said “we hold (or believe) these truths to be self-evident.” They did not claim they were facts, much less that everyone in the world agreed with them.

I probably share your values to several decimal points, but I try not to assume everybody else does.

I agree that Western societies are better for women than Muslim ones. But try to see what devout Muslims, including women, see when they look at how women are treated in the West. They see dishonor and degradation.

I’ve never said Islamic societies are virtuous, only that their sincerely held values often diverge considerably from ours.


41 posted on 03/16/2015 9:27:22 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie

Good read.


42 posted on 03/16/2015 3:44:27 PM PDT by Rome2000 (SMASH THE CPUSA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
I do not assume that a majority of Muslims currently adhere to Western values, only that over time, enough can be persuaded to agree so that Muslim societies will be changed in ways that make them less aggressive and destructive.

Notably, although the "Muslim Spring" went sour when it was hijacked by Islamists, it began as a series of protests demanding Western style political reforms. Similarly, millions of Muslims have to one degree or another chosen Western values by emigrating from Muslim lands to Europe and the US.

Consider the modern history of Japan, a society explicitly based on a warrior code. After WW II, MacArthur insisted that the Japanese adopt not just the mechanisms of democracy but also deep reforms that elevated women to equality with men. The result was a transformation of Japan into a modern, peaceful society.

Can the same process be induced within Islam? It may, as with WW II, require defeat in war, unconditional surrender, and then a long period of reformist occupation. Or, perhaps a strong, consistent US effort in the war of ideas will be enough.

After all, the crisis of Islam is that many Muslims already see themselves as losers at the bottom of the global pecking order in the measures of modern life. At the very least, we ought to explain how Islam's toxic culture can be remedied by human rights, democracy, and fair treatment of women.

43 posted on 03/16/2015 6:52:19 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Rockingham

I agree it’s worth a try.


44 posted on 03/16/2015 9:00:34 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

This topic was posted 3/15/2015, thanks Jacquerie.

45 posted on 08/01/2024 8:38:06 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Putin should skip ahead to where he kills himself in the bunker.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-45 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson