This topic was posted , thanks Jacquerie.
Posted on 03/15/2015 3:30:15 PM PDT by Jacquerie
Nowhere have I claimed that human right, including those for women, are not reforms. Just that quite a large number of people around the world disagree.
You are falling into the trap that is almost universal, have to struggle against it myself. Here’s an example: “human rights, democracy, and fair treatment of women to be reforms ... tend to make societies that embrace them less violent and less aggressive.”
The assumption here is that everyone will agree with us that less violence and aggression is a good thing. Well, they don’t. In militaristic societies, or those based on the notion of the obligation to wage eternal war on the rest of the world until they submit, why would they view less violence or aggression as good things? Those are our values, not theirs.
Another example: Expose a 17th century Euro aristo to the notion that “all men are created equal.” He would be appalled. What, he’s the equal of his own serfs? Don’t be ridiculous. When the Founders made this statement, they said “we hold (or believe) these truths to be self-evident.” They did not claim they were facts, much less that everyone in the world agreed with them.
I probably share your values to several decimal points, but I try not to assume everybody else does.
I agree that Western societies are better for women than Muslim ones. But try to see what devout Muslims, including women, see when they look at how women are treated in the West. They see dishonor and degradation.
I’ve never said Islamic societies are virtuous, only that their sincerely held values often diverge considerably from ours.
Good read.
Notably, although the "Muslim Spring" went sour when it was hijacked by Islamists, it began as a series of protests demanding Western style political reforms. Similarly, millions of Muslims have to one degree or another chosen Western values by emigrating from Muslim lands to Europe and the US.
Consider the modern history of Japan, a society explicitly based on a warrior code. After WW II, MacArthur insisted that the Japanese adopt not just the mechanisms of democracy but also deep reforms that elevated women to equality with men. The result was a transformation of Japan into a modern, peaceful society.
Can the same process be induced within Islam? It may, as with WW II, require defeat in war, unconditional surrender, and then a long period of reformist occupation. Or, perhaps a strong, consistent US effort in the war of ideas will be enough.
After all, the crisis of Islam is that many Muslims already see themselves as losers at the bottom of the global pecking order in the measures of modern life. At the very least, we ought to explain how Islam's toxic culture can be remedied by human rights, democracy, and fair treatment of women.
I agree it’s worth a try.
This topic was posted , thanks Jacquerie.
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