Posted on 02/07/2015 11:33:55 AM PST by Steve Newton
Ok. This is the final version of an Act to remove the tax exempt status from all Islamic organizations. Let's FReep this petition.
What you say is true ... and you would see it to be true, because I have no doubt ALL OTHER RELIGIONS would jump in on the side of Islam, in regards to denying it is a religion for any purpose at all ... BECAUSE ... all other religions would face the same threat.
This won’t fly for just that reason alone.
If the only way you have of winning is by ignoring the Constitution then what have you really won? And the Constitution is very clear: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." How can you give Congress the power to decide what is a religion and what is not and still be in keeping with the provisions of the First Amendment?
The trouble is ... not all Muslims believe that ... and obviously more so in the West, and in the USA. In fact, there are groups of Muslims, right now in the USA, who fight against this idea that Islam must be the combination of religion and state. In fact a phrase they have come up with is “separation of mosque and state” ... :-) ...
I would never ignore the Constitution. But consider: Abiding by the Constitution does not mean we have to have a death wish.
When you stop thinking of Islam as a religion, then you can see the danger it puts us in.
One more thing ... you said, “You cannot separate them.”
Well ... the fact of the matter is that you can separate them, simply by choosing to do so, like many Muslims have already done.
Just because you have a certain minority of Muslims (and I’m referring to here in the USA, because our laws only apply inside this country) who refuse to separate it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
AND ... in the USA, if any Muslim tries to enforce and make parts of Islam a “governmental authority” ... and this “VIOLATE US LAWS” ... that Muslim will be arrested, charged, convicted and jailed for breaking US law.
Epic (and I mean Epic) Fail.
Maybe. But we must fight back. What are you doing to help?
Check this out: http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/02/4-star-admiral-blasts-obama-administration-muslim-brotherhood-infiltration/#Vo0HEvgp1rrAvcsu.99
You contradict yourself. You say you would never ignore the Constitution then you say that there are times when you would not abide by it? What is ignoring the Constitution but a death spiral for our Republic?
When you stop thinking of Islam as a religion, then you can see the danger it puts us in.
Who do you suggest we trust to make that call? Congress? The President? You?
Thank you. The Constitution should always be abided by. What you must understand is this is not really a Constitutional issue. It is a simple administrative issue. They can still call themselves a “religion.”
I just don’t want to pay for it through our tax money..
I am aware of Obama’s actions with the Muslim Brotherhood, and his actions with Egypt, when he went over to Egypt in 2009 and specifically asked that the Muslim Brotherhood be there for his speech, and how he supported Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in taking over Egypt.
Recently Morsi (the former President of Egypt) was arrested and removed from office and the Muslim Brotherhood was outlawed in Egypt. BUT here in the USA they are not banned or outlawed, so Obama still meets with Muslim Brotherhood.
I think what you’re exhibiting here is a misunderstanding of what is involved in a “religion”. I believe you’re thinking of it as “monolithic single entity” - a single organization - which you can single out and have “that entity” be responsible and answer for everything. If you have a legal matter, you would go to that single entity, and that entity and organization would be responsible for it all.
Well, that’s not true. There is no single organization or entity which sets the rules for “Islam”, which is answerable for Islam, and which you can haul into court for Islam. All there is ... is maybe around couple of billion people in the world, who come under the ideology and philosophy of Islam, and they ALL HAVE THEIR OWN IDEA of what it is.
Even when you take their book and talk to different Muslims, they all have their own idea of what it means, what it tells them to do and how they are to follow it.
There is NO SINGLE ISLAMIC IDENTITY or ORGANIZATION in the USA (or for the world, either). You can’t even write a LAW and direct it to ISLAM because there IS NO ISLAM ORGANIZATION.
There are, instead, a large number (very large number) of Islamic groups, organized into small entities (organizations) and they are NOT LEGALLY RELATED to one another. They are independent of one another, don’t relate legally to one another and they all have DIFFERENT NAMES from one another.
A comparison is that you might want to make CHRISTIANITY so that it can’t get a 501(c)(3) ... because of some egregious violation that you’ve seen in Catholic Churches, and so you say, since they say they are of “CHRISTIANITY” ... that “CHRISTIANITY” should not get the tax break.
But I’ll pipe up and say, “Catholics are a different Christianity than me, as I’m a Baptist.” We’re not related to Catholics, we’re NOT in that church building they are in and we have no legal connection with them.”
I’ll be telling your that whatever THEIR VIOLATION WAS, that it’s not related to me, even though I’m part of “CHRISTIANITY” as they say they are. So I’ll tell you that not giving “CHRISTIANITY” a tax break is a violation of my rights in my Baptist Christian group, you see.
LIKEWISE, with ISLAM, there are all kinds of different groups and they are not related to one another. If you’ve got a gripe against ONE GROUP that doesn’t mean you have a gripe against “ISLAM” because another group will tell you that they don’t view “ISLAM” the same way the first group does.
The bottom line is that you have no way to “make illegal” a particular ideology ... you only have a way to tell people (by law) what they can do and cannot do ... (Like you cannot practice polygamy, or you cannot cut off heads, or you cannot stone adulterers, like the Old Testament says ... and so on).
Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hinduism, and all the hundreds of other “religions” are just philosophies and ideas. When a small group officially forms (maybe 10 people, maybe 1,000 people) EACH GROUP will have ITS OWN WAY and ITS OWN INTERPRETATIONS!
That’s why your idea will never get anywhere ...
Administrative issues ... which violate the US Constitution ... then become “Constitutional issues” ... :-) ...
I would suggest doing something like supporting Muslims in the USA who are fighting separating “mosque and state”.
One such organization is American Islamic Forum for Democracy, headed by Dr. Zuhdi Jasser.
American Islamic Forum for Democracy
http://aifdemocracy.org/about/
The American Islamic Forum for Democracy’s (AIFD) mission is to advocate for the preservation of the founding principles of the United States Constitution, liberty and freedom, through the separation of mosque and state.
AIFD is the most prominent American Muslim organization directly confronting the ideologies of political Islam and openly countering the common belief that the Muslim faith is inextricably rooted to the concept of the Islamic State (Islamism). Founded by Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, AIFD looks to build the future of Islam through the concepts of liberty and freedom.
AIFD’s mission is derived from a love for America and a love of our faith of Islam. Dr. Jasser and the board of AIFD believe that Muslims can better practice Islam in an environment that protects the rights of an individual to practice their faith as they choose. The theocratic “Islamic” regimes of the Middle East and some Muslim majority nations use Islam as a way to control Muslim populations, not to glorify God as they portend. The purest practice of Islam is one in which Muslims have complete freedom to accept or reject any of the tenants or laws of the faith no different than we enjoy as Americans in this Constitutional republic.
AIFD believes that the root cause of Islamist terrorism is the ideology of political Islam and a belief in the preference for and supremacy of the Islamic state. Terrorism is but a means to that end. Most Islamist terror is driven by the desire of Islamists to drive the influence of the west (the ideas of liberty) out of the Muslim consciousness and Muslim majority societies. The underlying philosophy of Islamism is what western society should fear most. With almost a quarter of the world’s population Muslim, American security will never come without an understanding and winning out of the ideas of liberty by Muslims and an understanding of the harm of political Islam by non-Muslims.
AIFD seeks to build and establish an institution that can provide an ideological infrastructure for the ideas of liberty and freedom to Muslims and our future generations. We seek to give Muslims a powerful intellectual alternative to political Islam (Islamism) ultimately seeking the defeat of political Islam as a theo-political ideology.
AIFD’s ideas will be promoted through this think tank and foundation as we take every opportunity to directly engage advocates of political Islam on the folly of their ideas. Our ideas are based in the American ideas of liberty and the separation of mosque and state without compromising the centrality of God in our life as devout Muslims.
We hope that AIFD’s ideas in the public place will ultimately serve as the seeds that will drive a prevailing liberty movement from within the American and ultimately the global Muslim consciousness to embrace the tenets of liberty and freedom. We will work to engage Muslim youth and empower them with the independence to question the ideas of imams, clerics, and so many “tribal” leaders of Muslim communities unwilling to look toward reform and modernity. We will empower Muslim youth to have the confidence to take personal intellectual ownership of their own interpretation of Islam, the Qur’an, Hadith (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad), and shariah (Islamic jurisprudence) and separate mosque and state. We will work to advocate for the ideas of gender equality, genuine religious pluralism, and an unwavering preference of the secular state and a secular law over the Islamic state among other central ideas in modernity.
The most effective counter to the current problem of Muslim radicalization is the advocacy of the American principle of liberty over the prevailing ideas of political Islam. Muslim children in America need to be taught that the principles of the United States Constitution are not only in line with their faith, but are the best way to protect the sanctity of their faith. At AIFD we recognize that these ideas require not only an advocacy for liberty but a need to create and promote deep reforms against political Islam. It is this legacy that we seek to leave future generations with our work at AIFD.
Since our inception, AIFD has seen a steady and consistent growth in our platform, our ideas, and following. Our mission is challenging on almost every front. Our primary adversaries, the advocates for political Islam do not generally promote an environment that gives anti-Islamist foundations like ours a protective or a naturally engaging environment from which to operate among Muslims and non-Muslims. AIFD has slowly and steadily built upon our body of ideas most of which are contained on this website. We have also slowly and steadily built upon our base of support nationally and internationally.
Our mission is on the frontlines of what is probably the most essential and yet contentious debate of the 21st century. So it should be easy to understand why many Muslims may agree with our mission to separate mosque and state and marginalize political Islam, but yet want to remain private and out of the public eye as supporters.
Ultimately transforming the work of AIFD as a think tank into a palpable movement by American Muslims is a tall task that will not happen until the public environment becomes more welcoming to the diversity of Muslims who disagree with the Islamist movement and its organizations. AIFD will continue to grow and advocate for our ideas and protect those of all faiths who join us in this critical venture.
Well
How about this Star Traveler
Revised
H.J.R.XXX
One Hundred Fifteenth Congress
of the
United States of America
AT THE FIRST SESSION
Begun and held at the City of Washington on (Place date here)
An Act
To revoke the tax exempt status of all Islamic organizations in the United States.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE
Short Title- This Act may be cited as the `revocation of Islamic Organizations tax status Act of 2015 or RIOTS.
SECTION 2. Revocation of Islamic organizations tax exempt status
Whereas, under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office and to refrain from political activity;
Whereas, Islam is an all-encompassing political ideology involving unyielding social, economic and political dictates upon others, it is in opposition to the U.S. Constitution as the law of the land.
Whereas, Islam is an aggressive, combative ideology, with its primary text recognizing those not entirely subjugated to Islam politically, socially, economically and religiously, as being in the “World of War”, Dar al-Harb, thereby viewing these people and cultures as ongoing conquests;
Whereas, Islam is an dictatorial ideology that explicitly prohibits freedom of faith, denying voluntary choice, it is in profound conflict with this country’s principle tenet guaranteeing freedom of religion, thereby having no basis to be recognized as a legitimate “faith”;
Whereas, Islam is a political system that is in fundamental conflict with the founding principles, laws, and traditions of the United States, and thereby incompatible therewith;
Whereas, Islam’s primary text demands and compels the subjugation of women, forever relegating females to a masked and unclean lesser status, often the victims of Sharia Law’s brutal and indiscriminate penalization, and this is incompatible with this nation’s principle of fundamental individual equality;
Whereas, Sharia law is a legal system in profound conflict with the cornerstone principles of unalienable rights, Sharia law cannot be recognized anywhere within these United States without the comprise and surrender of this Nation’s principles, and the subjugation of the Constitution itself;
Whereas, the sacrifices of members and veterans of the Armed Forces on behalf of the United States in fighting Islam should never be forgotten;
Therefore, now be it so declared,
That the House and Senate supports the revocation of any and all tax exemptions now enjoyed by Islamic institutions.
Senate Sponsors:
House Sponsors:
Supported by Common Sense for Americans
http://commonsenseforamericans.weebly.com/
Administrative? You mean like paperwork? Fill out a form and it's done? I don't see how. Sorry, if you are going to eliminate an entire religion and millions of people then it's legislative and not administrative. And according to the Constitution that is outside the authority of the government.
Well, let’s approach this from another direction ... :-) ...
I can go on forever, giving the legalities and the Constitutional basis for what I’m saying ... but ... let’s forget all that for a moment. Let’s just start with “where the rubber meets the road” instead.
And that is ... try getting just ONE SPONSOR and ONE ONLY out of all the elected Congressmen and Senators in this Congress that will “sign on” (namely put his name on this document) ... and then you can come back here with that name and signature and inform us ... and we’ll go from there ... :-) ...
Smiles.
Yep that will be the test. Or maybe it has started a dialogue that needed to be started.
The Constitution does not indicate anything about it being outside the authority of government. The authority of government within the Constitution includes the authority to “tax”, and implicit to that authority is the necessary authority to recognize what is taxable, and what is exempt.
Nowhere does this Act in any way violate the 1st Amendment’s indication, “ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. The RIOT Act neither establishes any religion, nor does it prohibit the free exercise of any religion. It simply indicates that Islam is not to be recognized as exempt from taxation due to the fact that it is a political institution in conflict with the guaranteed principles of this country.
Nowhere among this Nation’s guarantees is there any promise every all-encompassing totalitarian ideology that might call itself a religion must be recognized as such for tax purposes.
See Post 38
Amendment 1: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." You're asking Congress to pass a law concerning whether Islam is a religion or not. Calling it an 'organization' doesn't change that. The First Amendment says the can't.
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