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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Does his selection expose the way he was selected as not from God? Or is his selection as Pope allowed by God, not that he is approved by God, but given for a time and purpose, as I think Obama was ‘given’ to America?


26 posted on 01/15/2015 6:53:37 AM PST by outinyellowdogcountry
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To: outinyellowdogcountry

Around the time of every Papal election, one hears over and over that “the Holy Spirit chooses the Pope.”

This superstition has no basis whatsoever in the teaching of the Catholic Church.

It’s a dangerous superstition, because it tempts many people to look at a stupid, vain, shallow Pope (like Bergoglio) and say, “This man must not really be Pope, because the Holy Spirit would protect the Church against having a Pope like this.”

No. Bergoglio is really Pope. He’s just a stupid, vain, shallow Pope.

The Catholic Church has survived even worse Popes, even a couple of heretic Popes, whose blunders had to be corrected by their successors.


80 posted on 01/15/2015 9:11:20 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: outinyellowdogcountry

That’s an aporia that no one will ever be able to resolve.

The greater question is how much do people tolerate from these leaders who may or may not be appointed by God?

Dietrich Bonhoeffer brought this issue to the foreground when he took part in the attempt to assassinate Hitler. I doubt God put Hitler in power, but I don’t doubt that God allowed Man to make that horrible mistake. As Bonhoeffer argued, how much does Man then tolerate?

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not advocating any sort of violence or overthrow, but maybe conservative Catholics need to protest this leftist Pope by boycotting the Church.


98 posted on 01/15/2015 1:52:00 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Carter...Reagan...Bush...Clinton....Bush....Carter....BUSH? / CLINTON? STOP THE INSANITY!)
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To: outinyellowdogcountry
is his selection as Pope allowed by God, not that he is approved by God, but given for a time and purpose, as I think Obama was ‘given’ to America?

This brief provides some of what you need to know to make sure you are rendering the assent required by Rome, and which pertains to your question.

6. The second proposition of the Professio fidei states: "I also firmly accept and hold each and everything definitively proposed by the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals." The object taught by this formula includes all those teachings belonging to the dogmatic or moral area,13 which are necessary for faithfully keeping and expounding the deposit of faith, even if they have not been proposed by the Magisterium of the Church as formally revealed.

Such doctrines can be defined solemnly by the Roman Pontiff when he speaks 'ex cathedra' or by the College of Bishops gathered in council,

or they can be taught infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Church as a "sententia definitive tenenda".14 Every believer, therefore, is required to give firm and definitive assent to these truths, based on faith in the Holy Spirit's assistance to the Church's Magisterium, and on the Catholic doctrine of the infallibility of the Magisterium in these matters.15

7. The truths belonging to this second paragraph can be of various natures, thus giving different qualities to their relationship with revelation. There are truths which are necessarily connected with revelation by virtue of an historical relationship; while other truths evince a logical connection that expresses a stage in the maturation of understanding of revelation which the Church is called to undertake.

The fact that these doctrines may not be proposed as formally revealed, insofar as they add to the data of faith elements that are not revealed or which are not yet expressly recognized as such, in no way diminishes their definitive character...

in the case of truths of the first paragraph, the assent is based directly on faith in the authority of the Word of God (doctrines de fide credenda); in the case of the truths of the second paragraph, the assent is based on faith in the Holy Spirit's assistance to the Magisterium and on the Catholic doctrine of the infallibility of the Magisterium (doctrines de fide tenenda).

9. The Magisterium of the Church, however, teaches a doctrine to be believed as divinely revealed (first paragraph) or to be held definitively (second paragraph) with an act which is either defining or non-defining. In the case of a defining act, a truth is solemnly defined by an "ex cathedra" pronouncement by the Roman Pontiff or by the action of an ecumenical council. In the case of a non-defining act, a doctrine is taught infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Bishops dispersed throughout the world who are in communion with the Successor of Peter...

Such a doctrine can be confirmed or reaffirmed by the Roman Pontiff, even without recourse to a solemn definition, by declaring explicitly that it belongs to the teaching of the ordinary and universal Magisterium as a truth that is divinely revealed (first paragraph) or as a truth of Catholic doctrine (second paragraph).

Consequently, when there has not been a judgment on a doctrine in the solemn form of a definition, but this doctrine, belonging to the inheritance of the depositum fidei, is taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium, which necessarily includes the Pope, such a doctrine is to be understood as having been set forth infallibly.17

10. The third proposition of the Professio fidei states: "Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act." To this paragraph belong all those teachings ­ on faith and morals - presented as true or at least as sure, even if they have not been defined with a solemn judgment or proposed as definitive by the ordinary and universal Magisterium...

With regard to those truths connected to revelation by historical necessity and which are to be held definitively, but are not able to be declared as divinely revealed, the following examples can be given: the legitimacy of the election of the Supreme Pontiff or of the celebration of an ecumenical council, the canonizations of saints (dogmatic facts), the declaration of Pope Leo XIII in the Apostolic Letter Apostolicae Curae on the invalidity of Anglican ordinations . - http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFADTU.HTM. [emp. mine]

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All teachings of the Sacred Magisterium are considered infallible in Catholic theology. These teachings can be divided into two categories of precedence. The highest are so-called "de fide credenda" teachings, that is to say teachings defined as explicitly and specifically Revealed in the deposit of faith..

The other category are so-called "de fide tenenda" teachings. These are equally infallible but are proposed not as being explicitly in the deposit of faith, but nevertheless implied by it or intrinsically connected to it logically or historically. These too demand supernatural faith, but not specifically in themselves on the authority of the Word of God in the Public Revelation of Scripture and Tradition...

Examples of de fide tenenda teachings taught by infallible ordinary and universal magisterium include the validity of papal elections, earlier non-papal canonizations now universally accepted (of St. Agnes, for example), or the immorality of pornography. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallibility_of_the_Church

It is reported that Benedict XVI, as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked. - http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101

Of course, the basis for RC assurance of Truth is based upon the novel idea of perpetual ensured magisterial infallibility, which is nowhere seen or necessary in Scripture, but which RCs extrapolate based upon fallacious presuppositions.

102 posted on 01/15/2015 6:59:46 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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