Posted on 07/19/2014 9:51:10 AM PDT by Citizen Zed
They were on his back. Between that and his weight, he couldn’t inhale. That was probably what did it.
Either way, he was murdered.
If Bratton is pressured on this, prepare to hear him invoke 9/11.
wasn’t addressing this incident just choke holds in general.
The problem in training is it’s half speed and everyone is standing up. The perp is primarily compliant.
Never thought I’d be on the same side as Sharpton, but in this particular case I am. Cops seem to get off on using tasers... why didn’t they in this case?
No problem.
I was academy administrator for the CYA when the director dumped the carotid without talking to anyone including the restraint instructors.
In the end, many decisions are political. We taught some subjects at the academy for PC and CYA reasons when we could have increased practice time for self-defense and restraint.
We fatties have a hard time being face down. An obese Down’s Syndrome kid died in Frederick, MD last year when off duty cops piled on him. Very similar. I’m guessing the “choke hold” is not the issue.
We’ll know in 2017 or 2018, when the investigation is completed...
We have a name. Remember it, so we can track the investigation of this crime.
The NYPD Saturday identified Daniel Pantaleo as the officer who put Garner in the chokehold and said he had been placed on desk duty.
What did they die from? Please don’t say ‘the choke hold’ without any other information. Ever hear of positional asphyxia? There is no way that 17 people died from the choke hold. Not possible.
I don’t care if you believe me or not. Remain ignorant or do your own research.
Chief Daryl Gates abandoned the choke hold after 16 deaths from 1975 to 1982.
The Bar-arm method is what he wanted discarded, the Police Commission set a moratorium on both methods but eventually allowed the modified carotid method to used if the rusk of serious injury or death justified the technique.
“Members of the New York City Police Department will not use choke holds. A choke hold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.”
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs2xuuKCIAABh7S.jpg:medium
We have a similar policy. Placing an arm around the neck for control is not a choke hold. That’s why it says pressure to the throat or windpipe.
If the cop choked the guy out he’d be in trouble according to NYPD policy, and the policy of my department as well.
He didn’t choke the guy out and he did not die from being choked, he died from a heart attack. Which is my point, the man did not die from the choke.
I understand NYPD does not allow officers to have tasers. Maybe if they had tasers the guy would still be alive. Then again, maybe not.
Maybe the city of NY should learn what the choke really is and re-instate it. Then again that would require them to actually have some brains. The lateral vascular neck restraint is very safe and very effective.
While we disagree on this case, (Garners only crime was suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes)
- I would like to compliment you on your civility in your responses. Thanks for your courtesy.
This is little more than arrest for revenue collection. Our founders revolted in part because of a 3% tax on imported items. Today, our government is imposing ridiculous taxes on cigarettes, among other things.
($4.35 per pack in NYC)
It’s no wonder there’s a black market on cigarettes.
Bottom line; Eric Garner was arrested, and ultimately killed, over *suspicion* of selling untaxed Indian reservation cigarettes. What a farce our supposedly *free* republic has become.
In Tax Fight, Tribes Make, and Sell, Cigarettes
Your welcome for the courtesy. I completely agree with you about the tax and the pettiness of the ‘crime.’ I also believe the government is way too big for it’s britches and needs to be completely gutted.
Unfortunately for us, morons keep voting themselves into servitude. The cops are in the middle. If you don’t take action, you risk your job. If you do take action and something like this happens, you risk your job, your property and your freedom.
When I worked I would not enforce the seat belt law. In my opinion if people didn’t want to wear their seat belt that was their option.
In my opinion the moral decay in America has lead to the advancement of socialism and increasing tyranny. Liberal politicians are indirectly responsible for this guys death but they will not be put on trial.
My gripe has always been the initiation of force against non-violent crimes, particularly where two consenting adults are engaged in some sort of mutually agreed transaction, be it the sale of unpasteurized milk, sex, or some plant/products that are sin-taxed to be legal for commerce. These are areas of the law that should never allow the initiation of what often turns into deadly force, as in this case. (in my opinion of course).
If Garner was selling untaxed cigarettes ( there doesn't appear to be any evidence that he was at this time) then write him a warning/ civil citation, and move on. The story emerging, is that there had been a disturbance, and Garner had stepped in an stopped it. The agitators had moved on, leaving Garner there to answer to the police as to what had happened. Garner was known to two of the officers on scene, and it was at this point that they accused him of causing the disturbance. After the incident was when they brought up his past cigarette transactions. Panteleo has had a history of stretching the truth, so it sounds like CYA to me.
Regards
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.