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To: ansel12

Equating all libertarians with the Libertarian party is like saying ALL conservatives are Republican. We know that is not the case. I am going to try to outline a few positions for you, and if you still think they are leftist when I am done then all I can say is you may want to learn the difference between statism and liberty.

Marriage: I and many other libertarians agree that when one gets married they are actually getting married twice. Once in the eyes of God and once in the eyes of the state. We can argue whether government should be involved in marriage (I don’t think it should) but the fact of the matter is that it is for the forseeable future. Because of this, as a libertarian, I am OPPOSED to gay marriage. I have other reasons for opposing it as well but for now we will leave it as a religious issue that cannot be resolved because God and the Bible are clear on their position toward gay marriage. However, because the state is involved, I am not opposed to civil unions that are only recognized by the state. This way no one has their 1st amendments rights trampled upon nor can they be forced to partake in a gay marriage.

Illegal Immigration: I am opposed to it. I do not believe in open borders. There are many reasons for this; security being one of the main reasons. I have no problem with legal immigration and it should continue, though the entire immigration system needs reformed. And no, I am not advocating for amnesty, just in case you were going to try to put those words into my mouth.

National Defense: one of the few legitimate functions of government is to protect the borders of the U.S. and its citizens. I believe in a strong national defense and a military capable of deterring attacks on us and our citizens. I do not believe in “cutting and running”, nor am I against unilateral action to protect our interests. On the flip side the military is not to be used as a global police force.

Gays in the Military: Sex has no place in the military. I do not want gays serving openly. But I also do not want heterosexuals openly serving either. Leave your sexuality at home, the military has a job to do. It should determine, based on a system of merit, who advances in the ranks, and who may even join for that matter.

Abortion: We all have rights and responsibilities. An unborn baby has the right to life. Just because it may be inconvenient to a mother who does not want to be pregnant does not warrant it a death sentence. The “choice” for the mother ended when she chose to have sex and take the risk of pregnancy. Her lack of proper decision making for her own life should not cost the unborn child his life. I have no issue with the government protecting the child’s right to life, as that is one of the few basic legitimate functions of government.

Child Porn: libertarians believe in consent. That is ADULT consent. Since child porn and pedophilia do not involve this, the perpetrators are robbing the children of their right to life, liberty, and property. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I am sure that not all libertarians agree with me, but may do. Just as many Republicans and conservatives do not always agree. Tagging all libertarians as you have as being leftist is no different that what the Democrats do to African Americans, and we all know what we think about the thought processes of liberal Democrats.


195 posted on 05/10/2014 3:30:50 PM PDT by BizBroker (There is no "radical Islam", there is only Islam itself.)
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To: BizBroker

No, the party is a perfect and pure, and true representation of libertarianism.

Do you personally agree with libertarianism fully, evidently not.

You then listed a hodge podge collection of your personal beliefs, at least one was out of place, you described “illegal” immigration, rather than “immigration” which libertarianism has a position on.

You are OK with gays in the military, didn’t address “civil unions” being recognized as the same as marriage in federal law in the military, federal employment and immigration.

You abandon libertarianism and join the conservatives on abortion and national defense.

You describe a libertarian position on child porn that they have not taken yet, and if anything, has been blocked by libertarians, when an attempt was made for them to vote on opposing child porn.


196 posted on 05/10/2014 4:04:57 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: BizBroker
Very nicely stated.

Another clear moral plus in the libertarian take is that it would necessarily refrain government from undertaking the role of charity, and give it back to a moral populace. Charity is a moral act, voluntarily given as such and received as such by the poor who benefit. When youth groups, service clubs, churches, hospitals, organizations, engage in charity, it is a moral act and received as such.

When government - which the Federal and state governments have done -- presume to take over the role of charity via welfare and special preferences and hand-outs, it becomes an AMORAL act and is received as an entitlement. Forced charity is amoral and nourishes promiscuity and sloth, as we have clearly seen.

That's just one of many of the moral and social malaises created and nourished almost solely by government; take government out of the mix, and we'd still have poverty, but there'd be better morality.

Government is solely a force, that is all government is. It is "a dangerous servant and a fearful master," as GWashington supposedly said. It makes sense to use such a dangerous servant sparingly.

Then again, I used to think that that's what "Republican" was, the quest for smaller government. Now it's a maligned and libeled libertarianism.

199 posted on 05/10/2014 4:34:18 PM PDT by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: BizBroker

Very interesting post.


215 posted on 05/11/2014 6:52:36 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Two parties, one agenda. It's the uniparty.)
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