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To: Iscool

You should argue this with Martin Luther.

“So we stand here and with open mouth stare heavenward and invent still other keys. Yet Christ says very clearly in Matthew 16:19 that He will give the keys to Peter. He does not say He has two kinds of keys, but He gives to Peter the keys He Himself has, and no others. It is as if He were saying: why are you staring heavenward in search of the keys? Do you not understand I gave them to Peter? They are indeed the keys of Heaven, but they are not found in Heaven. I left them on earth. Don’t look for them in Heaven or anywhere else except in Peter’s mouth where I have placed them. Peter’s mouth is My mouth, and his tongue is My key case. His office is My office, his binding and loosing are My binding and loosing.” – Martin Luther

http://reformationanglicanism.blogspot.com/2010/11/trueman-and-prolegomena-to-how-would.html

The facts are overwhelming. Peter’s name is changed to Rock (Name changes in scripture are momentus Abram etc.). Matthew 18 fails to mention the “Keys” which is a clear reference to Isaiah 22, where Eliakim was given real, absolute authority to govern.


11 posted on 03/29/2014 11:39:59 AM PDT by STJPII
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To: STJPII
You should argue this with Martin Luther.

We don't know if Martin said that at all...There was no reference to the source material...

The facts are overwhelming. Peter’s name is changed to Rock

The real facts are that Peter's name was changed to little rock, or stone to show to be a rock but in contrast to the Rock, Jesus Christ...And even if Martin said that sometime during his lifetime, so what...Martin was a Catholic...

Matthew 18 fails to mention the “Keys” which is a clear reference to Isaiah 22, where Eliakim was given real, absolute authority to govern.

Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Isa 22:23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
Isa 22:24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.

Sorry but any one can see this is a reference to Jesus Christ, not Peter...A type of Jesus Christ...None of your theories pans out...

19 posted on 03/29/2014 7:12:01 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: STJPII; ealgeone
You should argue this with Martin Luther.

You should be wary cut and pasting Internet quotes on Luther, as they often misrepresent what he said, if he even said it.

James Swan has put more research into these than any other on the Internet and if would do good if RCs would do a "search site" for quotes, as in,

site:beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com I have placed them. Peter’s mouth is My mouth, and his tongue is My key case. His office is My office, his binding and loosing are My binding and loosing

Which should show you Luther: Christ Gave The Keys To Peter?

But that is an issue that saw differences among CFs, while the real issue is perpetuation, and which has been dealt with before often. My fingers are too stiff to say much more now.

Matthew 18 fails to mention the “Keys” which is a clear reference to Isaiah 22, where Eliakim was given real, absolute authority to govern.

I doubt that is even a official RC interpretation, while The Targum, Jerome, Hitzig, and others assume that Eliakim is the peg, which, however glorious its beginning may have been, comes at last to the shameful end described in Isa. 22:25, and which position classic commentators Keil and Delitzsch contend is the case. And whether or not v. 25 refers to Eliakim or Shebna, it is evident is that being fastened in a sure place does not necessarily establish perpetuation.

In addition, nothing is provided by way of literal fulfillment of this prophecy in the Old Testament, nor in the New in support of Peter, and when perpetuation of any office is the case then the Scriptures makes that evident. And what is evident as concerns perpetuation is that to Christ it is promised that His kingdom will never cease, (Lk. 1:32,33), who shall be an everlasting father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that being their holy Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah, out of which our Lord sprang and made a new covenant with. (Heb. 7:14; 8:8 ) And upon Him shall hang “all the glory of his father’s house”, for “in Jesus Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” (Col. 2:9) And who “hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.” (Rev. 3:7) Thus this what best corresponds to the prophecy of Isaiah.

34 posted on 03/29/2014 10:06:41 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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