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To: Talisker; .45 Long Colt
For example, when Jesus said “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments," (Matthew 22:37-40), I took him at His word. I actually believe that doing that, alone, makes me a Christian. I believe everything else He taught - all of it - is secondary to that.

Let me get this straight - you are saying that everything else in scripture is secondary to this passage? Really?

So, you are saying that the word used for hang in Matthew 22:40 means of primary importance? Are you "hanging" this interpretation on the word "hang"? If so, you might want to read some of the other 6 verses that the word for hang is found - Matthew 18:6; Luke 22:39; Acts 5:30, 10:39, 28:4' and Gal 3:13. If that is what you are saying, then you are saying that Christ hanging on the cross is secondary to the cross.

I am sure you don't relieve believe that. Instead, the other commandments of scripture describe HOW we are to love God with all our heart and soul and might; and our neighbor as ourselves. Looking at the 10 commandments makes that pretty clear. So does the whole of God's Word. (Which became flesh). Take a ride through some of the profits if you think it is ok to worship God however one wants and what "works for them." That didn't work out so well.

Taking one or a select handful of verses as more important than any other verses of scripture always leads down a bad path.

54 posted on 03/03/2014 5:23:17 AM PST by lupie
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To: lupie; Talisker

Of course I agree with you. From the opening chapters of Genesis, the Bible makes it clear that God cares greatly about how he is worshipped. That almost no one is bothered by depictions of Christ reveals much about the devolution of theology. Earlier generations of American Christians would have immediately identified the 2nd Commandment as an issue here.

We have an ongoing winter storm and my elderly parents are without heat, so I must meet the heating and air man in a few minutes and don’t have time to write more. However, I was able to find an excellent series from Dr. Al Mohler I remember reading some years ago. In it he deals with the recovery of authentic worship. Here is a snippet:

“Hughes is right. Our confused worship corrupts our theology and our weak theology corrupts our worship. Are these voices alarmist? They do mean to sound an alarm. But there are others who are saying, “Don’t worry–be happy–go worship.” One recent church growth author has written, “Worship is like a car to get us from where we are to where God wants us to be. Transportation and communication are imperative; the mode or vehicle is not imperative. Some worship God in cathedrals with the rich traditional organ tomes of Bach and Faure from the classics of Europe. They travel in a Mercedes Benz. Some worship God in simple wooden churches with a steeple pointing heavenward. They sing the gospel songs of Charles Wesley or Fanny Cosby. They travel in a Ford or Chevy. Some worship God with the contemporary sounds of praise music with a gentle beat. They travel in a convertible sports coupe. Some worship God to the whine of a guitar and the amplifiers to the max. They travel on a motorcycle, without a muffler.”

“But surely there is more to worship than the spectrum of taste from a Mercedes Benz to a motorcycle. There must be something weightier here. “Worship is like a car to get us from where we are to where God wants us to be.” Can that be said with a straight face as we listen to the Scripture speak of worship? We know from the onset that there are many different Christian opinions concerning worship. This does not come to us as news. But the real issue for us this morning is whether or not God Himself has an opinion on this issue. Does God care how He is worshiped? Or is He some kind of laissez-faire deity who cares not how His people worship Him, but is resting in the hopes that some people in some place will in some way worship him?

“Scripture reveals that God does care. Leviticus 10:1-3 serves as a witness to this point. “Now Nadad and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. And fire came out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said to Aaron, “It is what the Lord spoke, saying, ‘By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy, and before all the people I will be honored.’”

“These were Aaron’s sons. But they did what God had not commanded them to do in worship. They brought strange fire to the altar and they were consumed. Clearly, God does have an opinion about worship. He is the God whom we have come to know in Jesus Christ, the God who has revealed Himself in the Bible. He is a jealous God–a God who loves us and is calling out a people but a God who instructs and commands His people that we should worship Him rightly.

“In one sense, I think you can say looking throughout the Bible that there has been worship warfare even in the Scripture itself. As a matter of fact, I think you can look back to the very first murder and see that it had to do with worship as well. What is an acceptable sacrifice to the Lord? Cain and Abel saw this issue differently.”

The Whole Earth Is Full of His Glory: The Recovery of Authentic Worship, Part One

http://www.albertmohler.com/2006/02/06/the-whole-earth-is-full-of-his-glory-the-recovery-of-authentic-worship-part-one-2/

Links to the rest of the series are below the first installment.


55 posted on 03/03/2014 6:26:44 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: lupie
Let me get this straight - you are saying that everything else in scripture is secondary to this passage? Really? ... Taking one or a select handful of verses as more important than any other verses of scripture always leads down a bad path.

Let me get this straight - when Jesus said "This is the first and greatest commandment." and "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments," you are saying he didn't mean those words?

And you are saying that to obey those commands as being "more important than any other verses of scripture" precisely because Jesus says those verses are more important than any other verses of scripture, is walking down a bad path?

We part ways right here, friend.

68 posted on 03/03/2014 7:30:24 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: lupie
I am sure you don't relieve believe that. Instead, the other commandments of scripture describe HOW we are to love God with all our heart and soul and might; and our neighbor as ourselves. Looking at the 10 commandments makes that pretty clear. So does the whole of God's Word. (Which became flesh). Take a ride through some of the profits if you think it is ok to worship God however one wants and what "works for them." That didn't work out so well.

One more thing - you think loving God is a matter of a checklist? You think you can face God with the Bible in your hand, and say "I did that, and that, and that, and that, and that..." and wave that Bible and that's it? BY WHAT ASSESSMENT DO YOU ASSESS LOVE FOR GOD?

Really. What scale? What measurement? So many preachers and priests and scholars and even Popes have turned out to be criminals. They all disagreed with each other, they all "followed" the Bible to their own assessment, and they all thought people who disagreed with them were going to hell.

Just like you, Bible scholar. There are many with equal or more Bible studies and religion studies who disagree with you - even to the point of belonging to different churches. They think you are going to hell, and you think they are going to hell. So tell me, who, among all of you, are not deciding for themselves what the Bible means? What the word of God means? Who?

No one, that's who. We ALL decide for ourselves. Thats the elephant in the living room of religion - the sales job that just believing like the religion teaches makes you safe, as if you don't have to then answer for your personal beliefs.

Wrong-o. And loving God is not subject to a checklist, either. The purpose of the Bible is to help people love God. LOVE GOD. It's not a list of requirements. It's not subject to human judgement. In fact, anyone who who has actually experienced love for God tends to SHUT UP in its presence, because they are awed by it.

But Bible thumpers? Oh yeah, c'mere son. Let me JUDGE your love ofr God. Let me tell you how it's LACKING. Let me tell you about HELL. Did you read this? Did you read that? You don't love God, I'LL tell you when you love God ENOUGH...

:: spit ::

Jesus said to love God and love each other as we love Him. He said ALL of the law HANG on those two commandments. and the word "hang" is not subject to parsing to find a way that does not mean "dependent."

And He also said His "yoke" was "light." I think what He meant by that is that we don't have to worry about Bible thumpers, hell, or any other abomination. That our love for God and Him, and each other is not only enough - it's what He wants.

YOU, on the other hand, can go back to reading your book. Maybe someday it will make your heart ache with enough dry judgement that you will fall to your knees and ask God to touch you with real love, and stop you from stomping on His children's inner communion - in the name of "Bible-Certified-Love TM."

69 posted on 03/03/2014 10:32:37 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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