Adice Needed For Windows XP Upgrade

None ^ | March 2, 2014 | cva66snipe

[cva66snipe]

I have two computers running XP. The most important one to upgrade right now is my desktop. I've gone back and forth trying to decide whether to go with 7 or 8. Furthermore the terminology being used for OS packages adds to the confusion for me. For example Starter, Builder, etc. Here is what my computer has.

Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600

Service Pack 3 Build 2600

System Manufacturer Dell Inc.

System Model Inspiron 530s

System Type X86-based PC

Processor x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 13

GenuineIntel ~1795 Mhz

BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 1.0.12, 3/1/2008

SMBIOS Version 2.5

Available Physical Memory 634.88 MB

Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB

Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
It's a 32 Bit system

I found a Windows 7 Upgrade disk for over $200. However I need to know if I can go a cheaper route and install a full system package over the XP without having to manually wipe my HD? I know I'll loose my data and I'll back up My Documents so that isn't an issue. Spending money for a Full System OS and it not want to install would be a huge issue.

I have to upgrade with a Disk. Downloading an upgrade or OS is out of the question. I'm on 52K dial up. Would Windows 8.1 full system work? That would get me around the 300MB download. W/7 as much as I would like to have it over W/8 would likely have me doing a couple of days of downloads to bring it up to date.

The last upgrade I did on a computer was W/ME and it was an upgrade disk. Oddly enough a W/8 upgrade disk for previous versions is not to be found in stores in my area just the full system. As I understand it an Upgrade disk is a full system disk.

To further confuse me a tech at a local store said yea W/8.1 would install no problem. But the darn box states not for use with computers with XP or VISTA. Now if that is simply because you would loose your documents etc fine I can work around that part. As I understand it using an Upgrade disk from XP to W8 that's going to happen anyway the Upgrade disk will do a full install wiping all files.

My system is basic a CD/DVD player and I have an external HD for back up and additional storage. A new machine is not afordable for me right now and besides I'd have to puy a dial up modem in it.

Any advice? Thanks.

[cva66snipe]

I've been curious about Linux but reality is not having the time to try and work through it. That's compounded by a concentration issue I'd have to try it on a good night or rather several good nights. I have an older Compaq I will likely try it on at some point if nothing else just to try out the off line programs. I will also still be able to keep XP in that one for the just in case I have some files W/8 can't open and I need to convert them to another format type of problem. But right now I need to keep the learning new tricks to a minimal and 8.1 is enough challenge for a while.

[daniel1212]

Yes, XP 32bit can only use 3.5. If you but some at ebay make sure it is desktop memory, and the right type and pin number. Even then there is a chance not may not work.,

[daniel1212]

I've been curious about Linux but reality is not having the time to try and work through it.

I would try Lubuntu for old PCs. Try the live CD and see if it works. It should detect Windows and configure a dual boot if you do not choose to use the entire disk. There is a risk for sure.

[rarestia]

You spoke of 2 distros of Linux, and both of those distros are not mainstream user distros. Fedora is literally Red Hat’s development platform and is one of the most rapidly changing distribution of Linux. It is NOT recommended for home users unless you are RHCE material.

I admit I’m not intimately familiar with Lubuntu, but I will tell you that you neglected to mention Linux Mint which is one of the most user-friendly distros of Linux with which I’ve ever had the pleasure of working.

I would NEVER recommend Fedora to a neophyte home user. For his purposes, Mint is the way to go, and you mentioned Windows 8 without noting that OP’s computer only has 684 MB of RAM. Windows 8 will NOT run on his machine, period.

[hoosierham]

You have done everything I know to do.By disconnect I suppose you mean the computer is only online when you actually need to be online? They can’t hack what isn’t there.

[hoosierham]

To CVA,

You DON’T HAVE 2 GB now;you have less than 1 GB PHYSICAL memory.Virtual memory is a work-around that uses your hard disk to substitute for lack of physical memory.Using virtual memory slows everything down.

Try to find 4 1GB sticks of memory compatible for your computer. Then XP can use 3.5 GB and will run much faster.Or if money tight get just two 1 GB sticks for now unless you find a deal on two 2GB sticks. Be sure to ask about compatibility.There are several different types of memory that are NOT interchangeable.

There are external USB 56K modems (I have one or two around somewhere -if you need one send a private message.)Modems that do not depend on Windows are more reliable,if your computer’s internal modem is a Winmodem it will not work with Linux.There are “tweaks” to optimize dial-up modems speed.If you can see an actual connection speed of 50K to 52K that is as good as you’ll likely get;a 56K modem is limited to 53K actual speed by regulations on power in the phone lines.

You really don’t want to put too much into an old computer.

A friend of mine bought a used Dell last summer at a hamfest for $5 and then paid $2 to another fleamarketer for memory.It works fine running XP.

I am using right now a Dell picked up for $20 at a local fleamarket.

[ansel12]

This is “disconnect”. http://download.cnet.com/Disconnect-for-Chrome/3000-33362_4-75645688.html

My XP computer will be unused and offline, it will only be needed if I have to look for advice to repair my new laptop, but I have hardened it as much as I could, to the point that I am thinking that I would be safe online even if I hadn’t replace it with a new 8.1 computer.

Here are some links for “hardening” XP.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=41138

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/secure-windows-xp-after-end-of-support-april-2014

http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/securing-xp-pcs-after-microsoft-drops-support/

http://www.foxguardsolutions.com/resources/details/xp-mitigation-techniques

http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/how-harden-your-browser-against-malware-and-privacy-concerns.htm

http://lifehacker.com/5940565/why-you-should-start-using-a-vpn-and-how-to-choose-the-best-one-for-your-needs

[cva66snipe]

Thanks one and all your replies and advice. I bit the bullet and ordered a new Dell Inspiron 3000 series with 8.1 in it. The modem I can install myself if there's a slot if not I'll use a USB modem.

I had too many reservations about any used machine because I don't know what I'm getting. My machine I know and have confidence in but it will be put to good use on a project I've been wanting to do. I have a bunch of LP's I want to convert to CD's and my old one is set up for it.

The Laptop? No useful to thugs info is used on it so I can hold off on the upgrade a while. Mainly I was using it to download pictures & videos for my sister in Memory Care for her to see her grand kids and for accessing FR etc when wife is in the hospital and I'm staying with her.

Thanks again.

[daniel1212]

You spoke of 2 distros of Linux, and both of those distros are not mainstream user distros. It is NOT recommended for home users...

Of course it is, it in the top ten here: "Fedora is perfect for many mainstream desktop/laptop users. Fedora handles graphics well and uses appealing interfaces. The recommended system requirements are 1GB memory and 10GB hard-drive. -http://www.linux.org/threads/which-distro-is-right-for-me.4834/

And there is no unified voice in Linux (except hate for Windows), while what i recommended was Lubuntu.

I admit I’m not intimately familiar with Lubuntu, but I will tell you that you neglected to mention Linux Mint which is one of the most user-friendly distros of Linux with which I’ve ever had the pleasure of working.

Sure i would recommend Linux Mint, which has the top spot, and its universal installer comes without the proprietary media codecs that are illegal on Linux in the US; (http://www.neowin.net/news/watching-dvds-on-linux-is-mostly-illegal). Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Fedora, Lubunto and OpenSuse also come without them by default.

But for a PC with little ram then he should go with a lighter variant of Ubuntu, which Libuntu is, though Xubuntu may be better.

you mentioned Windows 8 without noting that OP’s computer only has 684 MB of RAM.

True, though i also sent him to where he can get 2gb or ram cheap, while encouraging him to get a newer PC.

But he needs to know that this can take some time to learn (read the forums) and glitches in Linux on old PCs or laptops, in my experience.

[rarestia]

I got the impression from OP that he was on a fixed income and not able to upgrade very easily. Also, with a system that old, he might have issues finding RAM, and his motherboard might not support more than a gig of RAM. Just because a DIMM fits doesn’t mean the system can use/support it.

Also, as far as “legality” in Linux for media codecs, I never claimed that Linux was ideal for use as a media center. That being said, there are PLENTY of publicly-available distributions of Linux with media center support using XBMC, for instance. It sounds like OP wants a machine that he can use for web browsing and email. Media was not mentioned unless I completely glanced over it.

[daniel1212]

To add to your info,

Microsoft is partnering with Laplink, a company that specializes in data migration software. Together, they are offering a data migration tool called PCmover Express for Windows XP free of charge. The software will transfer files, settings and profiles from XP to a newer operating system. It’ll be available later this week from windowsxp.com . - http://www.techspot.com/news/55869-microsoft-to-remind-windows-xp-users-of-pending-end-of-support-date-offers-free-data-migration-tool.html

[cva66snipe]

Thanks for the info.

[daniel1212]

Thanks for your input, which was quite a bit on this thread and speaks to the willingness to help and the interest in this issue among FReepers.

I was thinking of my route as told in the link i first gave, which was with with a 8 years PC last year, 2.8ghz dual core 64 bit Intel and 4gb ram. But the mobo could not make use of more than 3.5 which the 64bit architecture can.

Linux was not the best option due to all that i can and do use Windows to do, so i tested my PC with the evaluation tool and the evaluation copy of W/8. Then i was able to buy the W/8 pro upgrade, with free media center upgrade (after), for 29.00 from NewEgg (40.00 Visa rebate). Which came with both 23 and 64 bit actual DVDs. No download.

I knew that promo price was exceptional, and later someone wanted to give me money for a new PC to replace the 8 year old Sony workhorse used about 12 hours a day (this is a nonprofit work), which replacement i prayerfully bought (ASRock 970 EXTREME3 mobo; AMD 6350 3.9ghz 6 core 64bit cpu; 8gb ram for under 600) which i hope will last another 8 years. And no OS was needed as the W.8 license allows you to remove it from one PC and installed it on another, which b4 was limited to retail ver$ions. So thank God.

The old Sony PC has Linux on it now instead of XP, and i just installed Peppermint on a Compaq nx9005, 1.67 cpu, 512 ram (Fedora, Xubuntu, and Lubuntu would not work right on it) and i also installed Xubuntu on a Travelmate 2480 (1.87 cpu; 2gb ram) to dual boot with XP, and it boosts almost as fast as XP. And the laptop itself is much much faster than the Compaq, even though the basic specs are quite similar.

[rarestia]

You got a great price on the Windows 8 upgrade, Daniel, and it sounds like some enterprising and charitable folks helped you get the PC you deserved.

While I laud the adventurous who delve into the world of Linux, it’s not for everyone. It sounds like you’re someone who’s a bit more knowledgeable than the next guy, so I made the play to entice you. It sounds like you already made the switch, and that’s awesome.

As a Windows Server engineer and domain architect, I am not averse to Windows; I use it literally every single day of my life. I do push people to Linux, because the world is becoming a scary place, and folks on Linux will be one step ahead if the SHTF. I’m not claiming Linux is ironclad, but it’s definitely harder than most contemporary operating systems.

My best of luck to you in your endeavors. My only warning is to migrate away from XP as fast as possible or disconnect it from the Internet. There WILL be exploits out there shortly after discontinued support. Count on it!

[cva66snipe]

I did learn something else a little while ago. I was concerned about being able to get Linux to work on my olld internal dial up modem {drivers issues etc}. I was buying a new external modem/fax modem & US Robotics makes an external USB modem that they say will work on Windows, MAC, and Linux. USRobotics USR5637 56K USB FaxModem for Windows, Mac, Linux. So when I get the time to play around with Linux I can try it out on an older computer and no harm done either way.

[daniel1212]

I was buying a new external modem/fax modem & US Robotics makes an external USB modem that they say will work on Windows, MAC, and Linux

I used dial up for years in a apt. with 2 floors using the same phone line! For free with AOL and then with http://www.freedialup.org/site. No ads. What part of US are you in?

So i bought a used US Robotics external mod but it worked with a serial cable. I also had a device that allowed you to answer the phone without dropping your connection. When we moved last summer i gave i or threw them old away though.

I see usb robotics modem external beginning at 18.00 used at Ebay , or 10.00 new for other names (always choose shipping and price lowest first from drop down menu)

Xubuntu should run well on what you have, but more ram would help.

[daniel1212]

While I laud the adventurous who delve into the world of Linux, it’s not for everyone. It sounds like you’re someone who’s a bit more knowledgeable than the next guy, so I made the play to entice you. It sounds like you already made the switch, and that’s awesome.

Actually i use W/8.1pro with the media center, dual booting with Linux. On the Desktop I installed Linux on a second HD, with the Windows HD disconnected so as not to have boot menu or mess around with the uefi bios. Just plug in the 2nd drive (which i have done while the PC is on standby) and tap F12 during boot or whatever key gives you a choice of drives to boot from.

But i always have found problems with Linux not doing what you take for granted can easily be done in Window, resulting in various attempts to analyze and scripts to find and try. Trying to get Flash - which Adobe no longer supports for Linux (its level of support for Windows is itself deficient) is the latest for mem, plus incomplete shutdown.

I’m not claiming Linux is ironclad, but it’s definitely harder than most contemporary operating systems.

That is actually unwanted for me, as I imagined Linux was about freedom, not being told i did not have permission to do change this or that. Just yesterday i tried to copy the libflashplayer.so to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins only to be told i did not have perrmission! So i had to find out how to go thru the sudo mode.

I searched on how to run Ubuntu as root by default (as Puppy does), and while it can be done (but not with auto login it seems), you get constant dire dissuasive attempts against doing so, with one poster saying they thought it was against forum rules to say how to do so!

Under Windows one of the first thing i do after an install is to choose to see all system files, and file extns, and show files as details, and end up turning off the UAC. And with no anti virus Windows has been extensively used with intensive Internet use for over a decade, from Win/ 9x to 8.1, with only 2 viruses. I usually used the mvps host file , but W/8 changes it back, which it should not.

I guess i am what they call a "power user," usually having about 100 tabs and and multiple docs open, etc, and i have far more freedom to change files. Thanks be to God.

And finding and installing 3rd party apps is much faster and easier in Windows, with more variety. However, Winpatrol is a must to let you know what wants to change what. Linux is weak on Bible programs, so i use Wine to run BP Bible, but E-sword is a challenge. Two of my favorite Windows progs i have not found in Linux are Autohotkey, which i to launch many things by hot keys, and changed the Caps lock to copy, and Esc to paste (NumLock is now Esc). And PhoneTrayFree, which tells me who is calling, keeping a record of calls for years, even allowing me to zap 800 numbers.

And in Ubuntu at least, i cannot even right click on an icon in the Application (Start) menu and find its location, or copy it, or make shortcut key to it, etc.

But thank God for variety, and which Firefox much helps in doing, which along with LibreOffice or OpenOffice are the two primary apps for Linux.

Below is what W/8.1 looks like with the ClassicShell prog (the right side of e screen and the clock only showed up bcz my cursor was in the top right band corner)

Firefox (better than Chrome in customization) with TabMixPlus (reduce tab width; multiple tab rows, etc.) Session Manager (save sessions), Colorful Tabs, NOIA 4 theme (minimalist, reduce tab height, much customization) and other extens, which you can use in Linux as well.

[rarestia]

Wow, the number of tabs you have open makes my brain hurt. You use tab groups at all?

As far as Linux hardening, using sudo to do everything is second nature to IT folks. I was initially annoyed that Ubuntu did not have an accessible root account, but since sudo is functional, it’s pretty awesome. Sudo is intended to save you from yourself, something I believe Microsoft tried to do but at which they failed miserably in execution. We become so click happy and want to use everything as soon as they’re downloaded, we neglect to truly understand what we’re about to do when we install something. This was the downfall of XP as an OS as more socially-engineered viruses came about and people just gleefully clicked on anything.

In most enterprise IT shops, you’ll find everyone has 2 accounts: your login user and your administrative user account. I use my administrative user account to do everything work related that requires I think before I do. That’s the whole point of sudo, IMO.

[daniel1212]

Wow, the number of tabs you have open makes my brain hurt. You use tab groups at all?

No need to. I just drag tabs i often go to (like FR) or check on occasionally (blogs, etc.) together, and can protect and lock them in FF, thus they are always togther. With colorful tabs you can make certain one a certain color, as well as to choose it to color them by site.

Then there are tabs i want to go back to and read later (there is an ext, called Read it later, but then i never do it seems) when i can better digest it.

And then there is current research, etc.

As far as Linux hardening, using sudo to do everything is second nature to IT folks. I was initially annoyed that Ubuntu did not have an accessible root account, but since sudo is functional, it’s pretty awesome.

No it is not. Bringing up a terminal and running sudo even to deal with files in programs you installed, or copy from your own disks is not awesome, and should be less necessary for a single-user environment than in Windows. And in which i can and often do copy or paste things into program folders and preferences. And UAC is turned off as is Windows Defender.

And if a system file is locked, i use the Take Ownership or Unlocker utilities.

The reason you have less freedom in Linux since sudo is needed is partly because Linux is not as user friendly as Windows, and thus users have to run so many scripts, which can differ from one flavor to another. This is not how to increase usership much from less than 3% of the market.

Sudo is intended to save you from yourself, something I believe Microsoft tried to do but at which they failed miserably in execution.

Rather, they became more like Linux but have a business to run, and thus needed to be more reasonable than those who cannot tolerate the idea of running a OS without having to jump thru hoops to rename a file.

I understand click-happy users should not even see system or program files, but there should be an option to allow much more freedom for power users.

We become so click happy and want to use everything as soon as they’re downloaded, we neglect to truly understand what we’re about to do when we install something. This was the downfall of XP as an OS as more socially-engineered viruses came about and people just gleefully clicked on anything.

That is partly due to lack of "driver ed" in how to use a computer and surf the Internet, as well as cyber criminals becoming more crafty. But as long as patches are kept up, it is mainly the former that is the problem, with "drivers" being careless about how they use their computer and where they go, picking up anything that says "I'm yours."

Increasing security for all is roughly analogous to making it more difficult to get in your car due to car thieves being more crafty. And i suppose you could argue hijacking cars would justify mandating all to use the security methods now employed (but with the mysterious "black box" break ins recently, it may become counterproductive) I guess i am too libertarian in respect to computers (but not morally). I really never needed the extra security in Windows and so do not like having to use it.

Part of the problem is that I also have stiff fingers with decreasing dexterity, so i cannot type fast, and hit the wrong keys in every sentence, so it took about 30 min just to type this. But thank God i can do what i can, and computers are a very helpful God send.

Computers are supposed to enable you to have freedom to do things quickly and with versatility, and which should mean you can do what you need or want to do with the computer and its OS as quickly as possible, rather than being met with "you do not have access" type barriers, that requires extra steps of the sole owner/user.

I use my administrative user account to do everything work related that requires I think before I do.

In Ubuntu you are not to sign in to a administrative root user account - which can be done but not without extra steps each time it seems - and will be warned of WWW3 if you do, but must sudo this and that to even paste a program file.

[George Varnum]

Thanks - just installed classic shell and we’ll give it a go and see how it works.

One minor annoyance - I use Mozilla Sea Monkey for browser, and like the tabbed set up - but whenever I open a tab i get a really annoying and loud “b’ZZZoit” sound.
Have tried to disable it in control panel, but can’t.
Tried locating the sound / *.wav file to delete it, but can’t find that either (and I listened to all of them trying to find it). Nothing to change sounds in Edit > Preferences either.
Any suggestions?
TIA - GV