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To: DoodleDawg
DoodleDawg said: "Care to explain how he'll be able to do that? "

In George Zimmerman's case, George cooperated with the cops to such an extent that his case was made by the videos taken by the cops.

Even in self-defense cases, I don't think the burden of proof shifts at all. The burden is on the prosecution to prove that no justification existed.

For example, the prosecution can call a witness to state that the victim never attacked, physically or verbally, the ex-cop. That would constitute evidence tending to show that a reasonable person would not have feared great bodily harm or death.

The problem for the prosecution is that the victim DID physically assault the defendant.

If a complete stranger, acting alone, came up to me and threw popcorn in my face, I would probably feel threatened but perhaps not enough to fear great bodily harm.

In the movie-shooting case, the two people were not complete strangers. There was anger probably on both sides. The victim appears to have been a large man and was certainly quite a bit younger than the shooter.

George Zimmerman had some problems due to a prior legal problem. If the victim in this case has a clean record, that will go a long way toward convincing a jury that such a man would not do anything so irresponsible that he would deserve shooting. Unfortunately, it does appear that the man threw popcorn in another man's face.

"Who does that?", is a question I have already asked. I don't do it. I wouldn't tolerate being around people who would do that. I suspect we will hear more about the victim before this case is over.

106 posted on 01/17/2014 3:33:14 PM PST by William Tell
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To: William Tell
Even in self-defense cases, I don't think the burden of proof shifts at all. The burden is on the prosecution to prove that no justification existed.

I think you're wrong in that. The prosecution will try to prove that the defendant is guilty of second degree murder. The defense will be the ones claiming that their man is innocent because be acted out of fear of great bodily harm or death. They have to show why his fears were justified. Good luck with that.

The problem for the prosecution is that the victim DID physically assault the defendant.

Read the law. According to the statute, a person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. That could conceivably be the case here. The statute continues: "However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony." That is what the defense is going to have to show, and there is absolutely no evidence that Reeves was facing imminent death or great bodily harm.

116 posted on 01/17/2014 5:38:22 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: William Tell; Uncle Chip; DoodleDawg; Albion Wilde; deport
Unfortunately, it does appear that the man threw popcorn in another man's face. "Who does that?", is a question I have already asked. I don't do it. I wouldn't tolerate being around people who would do that. I suspect we will hear more about the victim before this case is over.

I’m sure we will eventually. However one possible explanation for “who does that?” could depend on what sort of words were exchanged between the two after Curtis Reeves returned to his seat after not finding a manager to complain to; I’m guessing Reeves was expecting a manager to eject Chad Oulson from the theater or taze him into submission, snatch his cell phone away from him and stomp it into pieces on the theater floor (like some cops are known to do)?

Allegedly Oulson asked Reeves when he returned if he had found a manager to complain to, seeing perhaps that Reeves came back alone, possibly even more pissed that he was when he left, then offered Reeves his explanation for why he was texting (and again this was not during the movie but during the previews) perhaps to diffuse the situation, “I was just texting my daughter’s daycare” or something to that effect. So what did Reeves say to Oulson just before Oulson threw the bag of popcorn at Reeves?

Did Reeves say something really out of line; something really foul and vulgar regarding Oulson’s daughter or wife? What some would call “fighting words”? One could imagine what could cause an otherwise peaceful and coolheaded guy to lose his temper in that situation. If and “If” is the operative word here, and we will eventually learn more from the witnesses in the theater once this goes to trial, but if Reeves said something like…. well any of you husbands and dads here can fill in the blanks…what might a man say about your kid or your wife or your manhood that might make you do something completely out of character such as to throw a bag of popcorn or even a throw a punch at some other guy? And would the guy deserve it?

Now if Oulson was a young or even older “punk”, a gang banger or a near do well, someone with a history of criminal activity and assaults, domestic abuse, etc. someone who was acting in a most uncivilized and rude manner, was drunk or high on something, perhaps along with a group of his friends who were also disruptive to the extent that all the other theater patrons would have cheered on and joined Reeves to complain to the management, I can understand why this might have escalated to the point that Reeves might have felt his life was threatened or in danger. But everything at least so far points to Reeves being the aggressor and instigator up until the point the “assault” popcorn was thrown. But again, what was said, what made Oulson so angry? And FWIW Oulson remained calmly in his seat and did not follow Reeves when he left and was from what I gather, not even texting anymore when Reeves returned.

Unless some deep dark secrets regarding Oulson’s past come to light, he to me, just doesn’t seem like a person who had history of anger management and control issues unlike perhaps Reeves who some people liked and respected but a lot of other people also said had issues with control and anger and demanded to be “obeyed” and found intimidating.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/us/texting-movie-theater-victim-profile/

Oulson served in the U.S. Navy from 1990 to 1997 and was an aviation maintenance administration petty officer 2nd class, according to Navy news desk Lt. Richlyn Neal. He served during Operation Desert Storm.

I don’t go to the movies all that often but I do a couple of time a year. The last time was when I took my 19 year old great niece to see the latest Star Trek movie for her birthday. While the previews were playing we were very quietly talking to each other; things like “oh that looks good” or “boy that looks really stupid”. During the previews and well before the movie started, my great niece used her cell phone to post to her FB: “Getting ready to Star Trek Into Darkness in 3D 4 my BD thanks to the best Aunt Evar!” OK, I like my smart phone and I occasionally text and post to my FB, but I don’t necessarily get the need among the younger crowd to constantly and incessantly use it to txt, FB and Tweet and take “selfies”. But even my great niece, as did I, had the good common sense to turn our cell phones off before the movie started.

Now if someone sitting next to or behind us was annoyed because we were disrupting their enjoyment of the “coming attractions” and politely asked us to turn them off or reminded us to turn them off before the actual movie started; no problem what so ever. But OTOH, if some a hole started cursing at us, threatened to have us thrown out for texting or quietly talking during the previews, I might have told that person to go get bent.

Let’s also keep in mind that the previews, the “coming attractions” along with actual commercials advertisements can run for some 20 minutes or more before the movie starts. During this time a lot of people knowing that the actual movie doesn’t start until some 20 minutes after the “show time”, will take their seats but then one of the party will get up and go the lobby to get snacks and drinks or go to the rest room so they don’t have to once the movie starts. Is it rude to the point of having to make a scene, complain to the management, if someone seated next to or in front of you is quietly conversing or gets up from their seat during the previews? The crummy commercials? Conversely is sending quick text message during this time, say to your child’s daycare, perhaps to let them know in case of an emergency that you will not be in reach except by text, not at work, or let them know you will be picking her up early, any different than getting up during the previews or asking your companion what she wants from the snack bar during the previews?

135 posted on 01/18/2014 5:08:35 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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