Ahhhh....another area of research with the same level of legitimacy in scientific circles.
And I'm sure he has a theory where cold fusion is the basis of all alien propulsion systems.
"I'm not saying it's cold fusion...but it's cold fusion"
Posted on 01/06/2014 10:10:19 PM PST by Kevmo
Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas
Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013
Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.
The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.
LNER (cold fusion) hydrogen/nickel latticeAs for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.
This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.
As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.
If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.
From a site I just now came across...
LENR-CANR.org
A library of papers about cold fusion
This site features a library of papers on LENR, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, also known as Cold Fusion. (CANR, Chemically Assisted Nuclear Reactions is another term for this phenomenon.) The library includes more than 1,000 original scientific papers reprinted with permission from the authors and publishers. The papers are linked to a bibliography of over 3,500 journal papers, news articles and books about LENR.
Until I see evidence of an E-cat powering a home hot water heater, stove/range, refrigerator, HVAC, etc. it’s all a religious hoax.
Valid points all.....for the ECat.
But this isn't "all about the E-Cat", though that device is referred to in the article. This is about the validity of LENR as a real physical phenomenon.
LENR does not stand or fall with Rossi. There are literally dozens (and perhaps hundreds) of experimental verifications of Pons and Fleischmann's work, and many more newer and alternative approaches, in particular, the "gas-loaded" approach, both using nickel w. H1 and palladium with D, that have shown excess heat, in many instances, huge quantities which simply cannot be attributed to energy storage or chemical reaction.
Garbage. You (and the writer you quote) are guilty of selective memory (and selective quotation).
1) P & F indeed conflicts with theory.
2) There were also successful replications from that same time frame (Bockris, production of tritium). Even the supposedly failed MIT experiment was later found on examination of the raw data to have shown excess heat (and thus also proved to be the first and only proven case of fraud on the topic of LENR).
3) P & F never claimed that what they saw was "fusion". That as a figment of the university's public relations department. P & F maintained that an unknown process, probably nuclear, had produced large quanties of energy...more than could be accounted for by chemical means.
P & F got the neutron measurements wrong, BUT THEY GOT THE CALORIMETRY RIGHT. On the other hand, the various physics sorts, using an unfamiliar tool (calorimetry), largely failed.
I suggest you go into that archive, and find the excerpts from George Beaudette’s book “Excess Heat”. I think you will find that your position is not supported by the totality of the published data.
The eCat has all the signs of a scam.
LENR has all the signs of poorly/newly understood physical phenomenon. (new science)
As a result - all eCat centric LENR articles are tainted. eCat cannot be the standard bearer for LENR science, because the ‘inventors’ are not following the proper scientific processes to validate their findings.
Proponents of Science rightly treat eCat as something other than Science.
(Just because LENR is real does not mean that the eCat is not a scam.)
And it has many signs that it is not.
"As a result - all eCat centric LENR articles are tainted."
There is a difference between "ECAT-centric", and "happens to mention E-Cat". The skeptopaths treat the latter as the former almost exclusively on these threads.
"eCat cannot be the standard bearer for LENR science, because the ‘inventors’ are not following the proper scientific processes to validate their findings."
Quite true. But they "are" behaving as people who have a valuable innovation and want to make money on it. Which is perfectly legitimate.
"Proponents of Science rightly treat eCat as something other than Science."
And I think if you check back on ALL these threads, neither Kevmo nor I have ever said anything else. But the skeptopaths are selling the idea that all LENR is a scam.
See post 11 for a typical example.
"(Just because LENR is real does not mean that the eCat is not a scam.)"
And the converse is also true. Which is why the only legitimate conclusion that can be drawn about the E-Cat at this time is "insufficient data".
If this stuff really works and an E Cat could power an entire house or car what will happen to the oil,natural gas, coal, nuclear etc industries? It will be either smeared out of existence or somehow kept from general public use.
OK - I accept your thoughts. (except that Rossi is acting a rational businessman with an invention.)
I would counter that if eCat was indeed a functioning LENR device, then why would he not actually be generating electricity with it already?
Why would he miss every deadline for device production (that he set for himself)?
Let us just say that Rossi is "eccentric". Whatever he may be, it is obvious that Rossi has a genius-level intellect. I've never known a genius level scientist who wasn't "odd" in one area or another. He is being rational by "his" standards.
"I would counter that if eCat was indeed a functioning LENR device, then why would he not actually be generating electricity with it already?"
Because everything takes more time and costs more than one estimates. Personal example....my company has worked as a subcontractor on a biowarfare detection device...the tech is complete, has finished all testing, beaten out all the competition, and WILL be produced....but it has taken eight years. And is not "out-the-door" yet. Of course, this involved the government, so all the sequester hoopla has delayed things.
And our tech is well-understood compared to Rossi's.
"Why would he miss every deadline for device production (that he set for himself)?
See above. There are ALWAYS delays, most often having little or nothing to do with the validity of the technology.
Same thing that happened to the horse-drawn wagon and buggy makers.
And the possibility of keeping it off the market is nil. There are too many countries who need the tech to upgrade the standard of living of their citizens.
Once it is confirmed that a working device is real, there will be a swarm of researchers in working on "a better mousetrap".
I am extremely skeptical of Rossi - which you may disagree with but seem to understand.
LENR as a valid topic for excellent Science, totally different story. I believe we are on exactly the same page.
Regards,
3
I don't think any sane person can be anything BUT skeptical about Rossi. BUT....there are a lot of other people with spotless reputations and excellent science credentials that have been involved with testing his "stuff". I am not about to totally ignore their work and write it off based solely on Rossi's past history. Rossi will go into history as either a great inventor, or a great scam artist. Either way, it is worth keeping track of.
As I said....."insufficient data". Time will tell.
"LENR as a valid topic for excellent Science, totally different story. I believe we are on exactly the same page.
Correct. And exactly my position since the first one of these threads. On that subject, there is no longer any room for doubt. LENR is real. EVERY aspect of it has been verified (largely aneutronic, large quantities of heat, transmutations, tritium production, energy and mass balance between "reactants" and "products" (He4...but only for the Pd/D system)), by organizations and researchers of excellent "pedigree".
Well, we wouldn’t want a google of moonman62 post to be removed, would we?
I mean, you’ve been posting this crap on FR for what, 3 years? Why are you not banned?
***The science behind LENR is real. The Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated more than 14,000 times, and multi$Billion companies are engaging in research. Why is it we can’t get any of these skeptopaths to discuss the science?
This is a strong sign of pseudoscience, and smacks of a mistake, if not an outright hoax.
***asked & answered
——————www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg87609.html—————
In many ways cold fusion is similar to perpetual motion machines.
***The effect has been replicated more than 14,000 times. That no longer smacks of a mistake nor a hoax.
———————www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg85732.html-———————
Yuh huh, and Shockley, after inventing the transistor, went on to prove that blacks are genetically inferior human beings or somesuch baloney. Does that disprove his results in electricity?
AFAIK, there has been exactly zero independent eCat testing,
***http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3022044/posts
and the construction of the device is still held in secret.
***That’s because it is an industrial device, not necessarily a scientific one. Industry is ahead of science. Kinda like when the Wright brothers were flying circles around Huffman Prairie while the best scientific minds of the time were declaring it to be impossible.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.